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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1719614 times)
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krusty
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« Reply #6825 on: February 18, 2018, 07:35:54 AM »

I have heard that the SPCA and PETA are lobbying aggressively to have piston oil squirrels replaced by some sort of pressurized tube and orfice oil delivery system.  grin

vic
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« Reply #6826 on: February 18, 2018, 09:53:28 AM »

I have heard that the SPCA and PETA are lobbying aggressively to have piston oil squirrels replaced by some sort of pressurized tube and orfice oil delivery system.  grin

vic

Oh man, just saw that  grin. Stupid autowrong on my phone  shocked rolleyes  grin
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6827 on: February 18, 2018, 11:13:32 AM »

I absolutely LOVE the fact that we have a representative from Jaguar/Rover powertrain certification joining in on this conversation.  Forker, if you ever do get to the salt, I'm going to force you to drive this thing.

Excuse me distracting you all if I missed something; erm, aluminium tube joint to steel fuel tank carcass..? Lots of bolts and an o-ring?



I'm basing this design on the Holley retrofit in-tank module -

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/fuel_pumps/in-tank_retrofit_fuel_module/parts/12-130

In fact, if the Holley set-up allowed for a shallower installation, I'd have probably just went that way.

If I had welding skills, I might be looking at a different arrangement.

But you've driven Spridgets - in the interest of keeping everything authentic, what could be more British than creating the potential for a bi-metal reaction and using too many bolts?  grin


Perhaps this class mandates unmolested fuel tank architecture; if so that kills the above idea anyway.


That is, indeed, part of it.  The class requires that the stock fuel tank be retained, although it does not have to be used.  But given the lack of space, retaining the stock tank as a fuel tank actually makes a lot of sense.

I DID, however, contemplate using the fuel tank as a coolant tank.  Harold Bettes previously posted up a formula to determine the amount of water one would need.  The 11 gallon MG tank would have been more than adequate to keep this engine cool for the entire run. 

So the question becomes, if 11 gallons of water is sufficient to keep a 135 hp aluminum racing engine properly cooled (<200 degrees) for three miles, how much heat will be introduced into a fuel return line that collects heat from ambient under-hood sources and from the fuel rail?

I'm not sure where I would start to do an apples-to-apples comparison of heat introduction through the return line - although I'm sure it occurs.  I'd need temperatures and methods, along with the heat transfer capacity of the fuel to be able to determine the actual amount of heat introduced into the return line through the fuel rail and ambient under-hood temps.

Mark and I have discussed a fuel cooler, but we also need to keep in mind the objective, which is a three-mile drive.

I just don't see a lot of potential for heat build-up in the fuel, and given the monitoring and automated capabilities of racing EFI systems, I don't know that this would be an issue.  But I'm not dismissing it out-of-hand, because, to be honest, I don't know.

As to running returnless, I'm not familiar enough with the practice to comment.

And there would have to be some ice; the salt pix look like it's a warmish place compared to Blighty so it'd be necessary to take a huge bucket of ice from the hotel.


The problem there is that if you want ice from the machines in the hotels, you've got to get up at 4:00 in the morning and wait in line behind all the other racers who got up at 3:30.  wink


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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6828 on: February 19, 2018, 01:26:01 AM »

Bob, Thanks for the info.

  Don
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forker
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« Reply #6829 on: February 19, 2018, 02:21:44 AM »

I absolutely LOVE the fact that we have a representative from Jaguar/Rover powertrain certification joining in on this conversation.  Forker, if you ever do get to the salt, I'm going to force you to drive this thing.


That's a deal!



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forker
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« Reply #6830 on: February 19, 2018, 05:42:00 PM »

And, now that I read back, a contained heatsink in the fuel tank was mentioned previously. The NZ team did that, I think, in  their bastardised BMW A-series (Heretics! Witches!), to excellent effect.

What would you do? Put the coolant water in the fuel tank and fuel in the now-redundant front radiator, so you have combustion fuel tank and fuel cooler in one? Voila! Possibly doesn't meet crash, though.

I also draw great encouragement from this forum; the focus on The Main Chance, as you say, is the thing. The car doesn't need to burn fifteen gallons, does it; you're only on the motor for, what, two minutes? Two litres of fuel burned? Did you say, 250litres/h for your Mustang pump?
 If it does a quarter of that against internal restrictions and 5bar that's still a vigorous recirc ratio. Not much chance for recirc fuel to do harm there unless you're only carrying single-figure litres. (Do I remember eg NASCAR fuel tank size limits overcome with generously-sized fuel pipes..?)

It is this, isn't it; Just do The Job; don't do anything else. It is like speaking to a policeman, in which we answer the question politely then shut up. I hadn't though of the salt as a copper but it does seem to be a place that exposes assumptions, underlines the truth and finds out when marks are overstepped. Blimey. I sound like Bruce Brown.

I also read in the trail that the queue for the start line (long enough to be seen from space, i imagine) is a couple or three hours long. That's where the infamous ice goes, I guess.

I am greatly entertained by the conversation; I fell about this morning when I saw your post. Too many bolts, forsooth. We invented thread standardisation, you know, and it's good to celebrate achievement so  there's no such thing as too many bolts!

F
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:30:16 AM by forker » Logged
Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6831 on: February 19, 2018, 10:42:09 PM »

Downloaded the Holley EFI software tonight.  Hoping to find a file somewhere of ANY 4-cylinder application to monkey around with, but - as I was warned - Holley's resources are OVERTLY V-8 centric. 

So I'll by playing around with the MAP for a Small Block Chevy tonight, and try to get a feel for how the software works without the luxury - or annoyance - of a small block.

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6832 on: February 20, 2018, 12:06:49 AM »

Would you simply divide the V-8 figures by two to get whet you need?
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« Reply #6833 on: February 20, 2018, 09:25:47 AM »

Downloaded the Holley EFI software tonight.  Hoping to find a file somewhere of ANY 4-cylinder application to monkey around with, but - as I was warned - Holley's resources are OVERTLY V-8 centric. 

So I'll by playing around with the MAP for a Small Block Chevy tonight, and try to get a feel for how the software works without the luxury - or annoyance - of a small block.




Chris. Maybe talk to Scott Clark. Iíll pm you contact information later.
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« Reply #6834 on: February 20, 2018, 09:29:29 AM »

Would you simply divide the V-8 figures by two to get whet you need?

There's a lot of data specific to the engine spec, but I suppose I could pull numbers from it and create a phantom 175 ci ohv four cylinder, just to play around with.

Ideally, I'd like to find someone who has set up a Cosworth FVA with this system - or at least get a printout of the parameters they set it to -
 something I could get data from - but the likelihood of anybody ever having done THAT is pretty remote, and the likelihood of them being willing to share such information, even more so.

The Holley graphics are kinda cartoonish, but intuitive.

I'll figure it out - I like cartoons.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6835 on: February 20, 2018, 10:46:45 AM »

Can you set the V-8 up with a flat crank?
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« Reply #6836 on: February 20, 2018, 11:03:32 AM »

Chris, I have 1 liter MoTec files if that will help...   undecided  You would just have to download their software, then do a lot of converting...
Your best bet is talk to an expert on that EFI system  cheers
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #6837 on: February 23, 2018, 07:41:41 AM »

Minor Update:

Despite the absence of our "FFL", "oiling squirrel" chips away at the work list . . . . .
moose is slaving tirelessly somewhere in the hinterlands of Sconnie Nation Human Resources . . . . . .

OK, moose made it south of the "cheddar curtain" on Wednesday the 21st.    I kinda think it was the lure of "dollar tacos" coupled with access to machine tools that can cause grievous bodily injury . . . . . .

The day went along with moose slavishly attending to gas tank and fuel pump mounting, ie: neutering of some components and surgery, fabrication and "eastern vegetarian incantations" performed on others.

The squirrel concentrated on machining the oil suction pipe, minor neutering of the new engine bolt ladder to fit the oil suction pipe at a proper height, and fabrication of the new oil pan "bottom".

No time for posting the "evidence" now.   Picture "porn" later . . . . .  Boris only, no Natasha . . . . . . .

 cheers
RocketJSquirrel
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6838 on: February 23, 2018, 10:05:14 AM »

Mostly it's just trying to explain the new health insurance plans and health savings accounts, writing release forms, attending meetings, maintaining files, auditing I-9 forms, creating HIPAA compliance policies, auditing payroll and answering 401(k) questions.

It's funny - we operated for 59 years with a system of index cards and a recipe box.  Today, I've got enough files to organize a fairly substantial prison break from Stateville.

Mark busted his hump Wednesday - thanks, bro.

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6839 on: February 23, 2018, 04:27:53 PM »

2/23/18,  Minor Update:   part deux . . . . . .

midget,

In a phone conversation today with the design engineer from Diamond Pistons, he reports that the design is well underway and should be completed early to mid next week.    A model will be released for approval at that time, and once approved, it will be released to the production department.    Production time is running approx 2 weeks, as of today.

Event horizon is, . . . well, . . . . on the horizon.

 cheers
RocketJ
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
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