Milwaukee Midget

[fordboy628]

Captain Nemo, you need to stop pumping out your basement and read that rule book I left you.  

Okay, so that narrows it down to AA/BGMS ot AA/BLMS.

Might take a little bit of tinsmithing - it's been done -

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,7226.0.html

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,7295.0.html

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,10112.0.html

That would be a great BIG orphan engine!

Judging by the number of "orphan" powerplants on this site, it appears that utilizing an "orphan" powerplant is a huge part of the "fun" factor for LSR racers.   Or perhaps LSR racers are the untapped reserve of non-conformists with an additional masochistic disorder?

Midget,

Alas, the problem seems to be far worse than even I anticipated.   I suspect it is the resultant of unfettered optimism, boundless enthusiasm and way too much idle time at hand.  I believe Sammy Sosa (the great Chicago Cub psychologist) named this condition "optimisty".   I fear the only cure for humanity is the expiration of all with latent racing tendencies...........  or return to the feudal farming system.
 
still Capt Nemo

[Milwaukee Midget]

I believe Sammy Sosa (the great Chicago Cub psychologist) named this condition "optimisty".   

Ahh - Corky - always fun to watch, fumbling around in right field at Wrigley, the bleacher bums having to point to where the ball was so he knew where to run. 

Steroids?  Nah.  Nitrous Oxide - more likely the case.  Never thought of him as quotable - I look to Ozzie Guillen for that.

Cubs/Brewers Saturday - Miller Park, with the ridiculous roof.  "Bud's Comb-over". 

[fordboy628]

Midget,

While perusing some engine close-ups on britishracecar.com I couldn't help but notice Harry Gentry's SVRA Championship F/Production 1962 Midget. His Huffaker built 1292cc (1275 .020" o/s) is equipped with a 1316 emmisions casting.   Hmmm.    Although almost universally disdained by other BMC experts, that casting produced some of the best hp on the 1310's I built for SCCA production & SVRA vintage.   Not suggesting use of one now, but I will do some flow testing this summer to generate useful #'s.   That casting has the smaller "open" chamber, and so is easier to get the C/R necessary for high output, especially on small displacement engines.   Flow #'s will be limited by the original valve sizes, but that can be rectified with O/size (Rimflo) valves.   (Note however, that the engine is shown with other heads as well.)

Notice also:

1   The pic with the Titan Roller Rocker assembly.   The individual rocker arms have the tip rollers "offset" to center over the valve tip...     Also notice: the steel rocker pillars...
2   There is a pic where an Aeroquip bleed line from the head to a surge tank & elsewhere is clearly visible.   Remember what I said about
     additional cooling for the rear cylinders?   You are doing this already, but it is nice to see other minds that think the same.
3   Torque limiting link from 1 of the upper bellhousing bolts to the chassis.

http://www.britishracecar.com/HarryGentry-MG-Midget.htm

Still Capt. Nemo

[fordboy628]

http://www.britishracecar.com/JohnMcCue-MG-Midget.htm

Another Midget with a 1316 emissions cyl. head, additional rear water bleed, and torque link..........             Hmmm.....
 
Capt. Nemo

[Milwaukee Midget]

Okay, okay - UNCLE, UNCLE. 

I'm seeing a pattern here. 

And yes, I do have an emissions head downstairs.

If the Longman head that flows 127 cfm, and that I just stuck new valve-guides and a three-angle APT valve job into proves unable to be cut down to the point that I can get some decent compression . . .

I'll install a torque link . . .

[fordboy628]

Midget,

I am "optimisty" that the Longman head can be made to work.   We just need deck face thickness #'s & the removal dimension to know for sure.   Don't want to give up on 127cfm that is already in hand!!

I have several 1316 castings as well.   I would much prefer to mill one of those to death rather than your Longman.    The critical ratio here is the chamber depth (height) to 'squish area' (gasket clamping area) thickness.   Milling as thin as .080" as DV suggests makes the head non-recoverable if a gasket blows.   And that doesn't take in to account possible variations in thickness from cyl to cyl in the squish area.   Once I have my ultrasonic checker in hand, piece of cake, or piece of bratwurst if you prefer.

Not trying to be your  tor'mentor'.....      I prefer to think of myself as:   Fordboy,  Master of the Obvious.................
 
Fordy Nemo

[Captthundarr]

Midget,


Not trying to be your  tor'mentor'.....      I prefer to think of myself as:   Fordboy,  Master of the Obvious.................
 
Fordy Nemo

Sounding like : Fordboy, Vizard of the BMC!! Lost this chevy boy about 2 pages back.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Midget,


Not trying to be your  tor'mentor'.....      I prefer to think of myself as:   Fordboy,  Master of the Obvious.................
 
Fordy Nemo

Sounding like : Fordboy, Vizard of the BMC!! Lost this chevy boy about 2 pages back.

Frank, be glad I'm not building a Cortina - I'd never be able to get a word in edgewise . . . 

Regarding Vizard - his recent work has been about all types of engines, but he broke ground and made his name with the A-Series BMC block in Mini Coopers.  My thought is that if he can get power out of a 5 port turdpile like what I'm building, I shudder to think what the guy could pull out of a real engine.

[Captthundarr]

Yea no kiding, the last couple of weeks the learning curve gained significant altitude.

[fordboy628]

FYI,   Vizard does work on real engines, his current gig is based in North Carolina.  Most of his work is for Nascar mavens, "real" V-8's.
         My understanding is he is quite sought after.

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizard/e/B001JOWD4M

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/138769/

Re chevytalk:  The side benefit of original thinking (thinking "out of the box") is that usually, everybody else thinks you are crazy, until you kick their butt on the track.......      Sort of makes you long for the "good olde days", when the earth was flat............   

[Milwaukee Midget]

I’ll try to summarize where it looks like we’re headed.

Think of this as an essay exam, proctored by Professor Fordboy.

I had the head flow benched last week.  Here’s a quick rundown – intake, cylinder 1.

Lift   cfm
.100   44.0
.200   87.6
.300   111.7
.4500   124.1
.500   125.6

Mel C&S tested it all the way to .600 (127.9 cfm), but it’s pretty clear that the party is winding down at ~.450, which I believe is well beyond the demands of the cylinder at that point. 

Compared to one of David Vizard’s heads in “the Bible”, this one is flowing a bit better at lower lift, although his has more overall flow at higher lift.  That’s okay – the head he built was for a 1300 - we’re talking about a 61 CI engine, which is less capacity than 3 cans of Schlitz.

After great discussions with Fordboy, what I’m thinking is that the curse and the advantage of this configuration with a 2.45 Rod/Stroke ratio is this – While we need to spread the LCA’s to clear the piston and valves at TDC (due to the enhanced relative dwell = less overlap), the relatively fast movement of the piston mid-stroke combined with the longer relative dwell toward BDC should enhance cylinder filling.  Key, as FB noted, will be throwing the valve open as quickly as possible. 

Right now, the lift acceleration rate is about as fast as can be built into an engine with lifters this small.  But seeing as the head starts to get limited at ~.450, there’s no real need to open it much further, which hopefully will let us adjust the lobe nose and backside of the lobe in a way that will allow a less radical deceleration rate.  The less movement, the less movement one must control. 

Also, it turns out that the 1.5:1 rocker ratio is a bit steeper than advertised, so we’ve got a bit more room to play with than calculations indicate.

Mel is checking the head face thickness, so we should know what we can realistically shave off of this thing in short order.   

[38flattie]

Always nice to have a plan, isn't it?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Always nice to have a plan, isn't it?

2 years of searching, 4 years of building, and 3 months of planning - in that order. 

Yeah, it is!

[Milwaukee Midget]

Unabridged current cam specs -









Mel was unable to check the thickness on the head - his thickness checker was down - Perhaps a trip to Illinois is in my future.

Illinois - How many governers are in prison?

Actually, I'll wait until the convergence of the Nato Summit and Cubs-White Sox series is over.  I don't want to be anywhere near Chicago until these nexusfiascos are behind me.

Studs Terkel said it best.  "Chicago is not the most corrupt American city.  It's the most theatrically corrupt."

I miss that guy . . .

[fordboy628]

Midget,

Still on the road.  At the site in Missouri that has the most Tourist visits annually.  Guess where!  Jeopardy will conclude on my return to civilization.............

 
F/B