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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2232094 times)

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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7470 on: October 12, 2018, 08:03:28 AM »
FINALLY! 

Nobody was more surprised than I was, but I hit the starter, and I swear to God, the 1k K is running!

It's too late to bother the neighbors any more, and it isn't idling for jack Subaru, but it sure doesn't sound like I expected it to.  I was expecting it to sound like a Honda CB900 or something, but man, it sounds almost like an Iron Duke - Much deeper and throatier than one would expect from a 1 liter.

I'm well past the apex for 2018, but I did make the corner, I'm a lap down, and I didn't hit the hay bales, so I guess I'm still racing!

 :cheers:


 

As close as we are to Halloween, I half expected a cackle!  :-o :-D :cheers:
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7471 on: October 12, 2018, 08:32:26 AM »
FINALLY! 

Nobody was more surprised than I was, but I hit the starter, and I swear to God, the 1k K is running!

It's too late to bother the neighbors any more, and it isn't idling for jack Subaru, but it sure doesn't sound like I expected it to.  I was expecting it to sound like a Honda CB900 or something, but man, it sounds almost like an Iron Duke - Much deeper and throatier than one would expect from a 1 liter.

I'm well past the apex for 2018, but I did make the corner, I'm a lap down, and I didn't hit the hay bales, so I guess I'm still racing!

 :cheers:

 

midget,

Congrats!




To all the non-racer readers of this tome:

Sooo, once again here is a perfect example of, well, whomever's law:

Well after all the mechanicals are worked out and assembled, the installation of the "lump" and the fitment of "all those new-fangled electronical do-dads" consumes far more time than any racer ever plans for it to take.

JMHO
 :cheers:  :dhorse:  :cheers:
Realitycheckboy
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7472 on: October 12, 2018, 09:38:17 AM »

I was told it's a ten minute job . . . :roll:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7473 on: October 12, 2018, 10:36:56 AM »
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7474 on: October 12, 2018, 01:27:14 PM »

I was told it's a ten minute job . . . :roll:
Metric minutes - multiply by 25.4!  :-o :-o :-o
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7475 on: October 12, 2018, 04:10:03 PM »

I was told it's a ten minute job . . . :roll:
Metric minutes - multiply by 25.4!  :-o :-o :-o

And if I switch from my Gregorian Calendar back to the Julian Calendar, tech for Speedweek is this Sunday.  :wink:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline wheelrdealer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7476 on: October 12, 2018, 04:25:49 PM »
Chris, for what it is worth... you are about to break 500 as well on this thread. Have not looked completely but I do not believe there are too many 500 page build logs on this or any forum for that matter. Have to ask Slim if you are the first to 500?

When it happens,  The Midget hits 500, pages that is.   :-o  :cheers:

BR

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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7477 on: October 13, 2018, 01:04:10 AM »
Maybe I can win the 500-page-dash... :-)

Nope. Oh well, not my first loss...
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7478 on: October 13, 2018, 11:54:35 AM »
It's alive. :cheers: I knew you would never give up. Good luck, get your record back next year. The salt was hard this year, I hope it continues to get better.

John
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7479 on: October 13, 2018, 04:36:12 PM »
Chris, for what it is worth... you are about to break 500 as well on this thread. Have not looked completely but I do not believe there are too many 500 page build logs on this or any forum for that matter. Have to ask Slim if you are the first to 500?

When it happens,  The Midget hits 500, pages that is.   :-o  :cheers:

BR



Well, he has the "Unfair Advantage" of perusing about beer and "Sconnie Nation" eats, . . . . . . . not just the car, engine, driver, etc, . . . . . .

Good thing he's not from da U P . . . . . . 'cause he'd be talkin' "wood" . . . . . .  ya der hey . . . . .

 :cheers:  :dhorse:  :cheers:
F/b
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Offline wheelrdealer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7480 on: October 20, 2018, 10:16:22 PM »
Chris
You have been hanging around 499 for a week! Let's get some witty tech talk between you and Fordboy and push this thread over 500.
BR
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7481 on: October 20, 2018, 10:25:51 PM »
Chris.............If you up the compression; put in some performance cams; time it to the edge; and install a hollow header/can.............the CB900  will get real deep and throaty :-D
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7482 on: October 21, 2018, 09:20:13 AM »
Been on a bit of a struggle this week.  Can't suss it out, but the k is only hitting on 2 cylinders - # 3&4.  I'm getting spark on all 4, and seeing as I'm running wasted spark, which fires the coil pairs 1-4, 3-2, I'm thinking an injection issue.  So back to diagnosis and observation.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline forker

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7483 on: October 25, 2018, 03:06:17 PM »
My word; that's a deep dive into the cellars. Looking.....

Company service info doesn't recognise this level of detail for the LR model using K1.8. Rover is no more; aftermarket now supports all of those owners.

Turning to cumulative wisdom of those who were here during those days and are still here now;

To our understanding, the connector on the pigtail has three flat pins in a row. It's rectangular in cross-section. It has a moulding with two ribs on both long sides, one side close together, one side far apart (relatively).

Holding the connector with the far-apart ribs down and looking from the wiring side, so seeing the individual wires as they enter the 'back' of the connector moulding,  pin 1 is the RH pin, pin 2 central, and pin 3 LH side.

In that context pin 3 is ground, pin 2 is signal, pin 1 is +12v.

It seems that the centre pin is signal, whether viewed from the pin side or the wire side of the connector moulding. Checking now if we have a view of polarity sensitivity...

It also seems the feature on the cam that the cam sensor sees is a step-up in diameter and a step-down in diameter 180' apart. It looks like a small balance weight, or a flange that's removed over half its' circumference. The sensor sees steel appear near to it, then disappear. The sensor signal will be a spike in one direction when it sees step-up in dia and steel appears, other direction when it sees step-down in dia.

So, if the collected wisdom turns out to be tosh but the sensor isn't fried then the signal will be wrong by 180' camshaft rotation.

Oh, did you perhaps get an engine harness on the donor motor? Guess not, or you'd have looked at that already.

More later...

I reposted Forker's post because I'm very grateful for his research, but this damned cam sensor is where I'm STILL stuck.

"Company service info doesn't recognise this level of detail for the LR model using K1.8. Rover is no more; aftermarket now supports all of those owners."

This probably explains how I was able to get the entire engine shipped from a Birmingham breaker to the United States for ~$750.00.

The sensor is described and sold as a hall effect sensor - 3 terminals.  That said, I've also seen it advertised on a few aftermarket sites as a magnetic sensor.

All hail the aftermarket . . .

Yeah, I know - my monkey, my circus.

Electronics guys - check me on this - I'm trying to avoid a brain-fart.

So the confusion is this - There is a magnet in the sensor itself, which I believe biases the output of the sensor. (:roll:)  I'm hypothesizing that when the ferrous cam lobe - a 180 degree half-moon arrangement described by Forker - passes the face of the sensor, this action causes a change in the flux field produced by the magnet built into the sensor housing, and produces a signal seen by the ecu.

Now if that's how it works, I should be able to apply voltage to the unit and see a signal output voltage (or change in output), by simply hooking it up to a meter and passing a piece of steel past the face of the sensor.

I'm seeing nothing.
 
The reason I'm sounding this out is that most of what I read about hall effect sensors used in automotive applications state that the magnet is separate from the housing.  I know that's how the Pertronix ignitions work, and all of the hall effect components that Holley sells uses this same method.

One other thing - I think both Forker and I have assumed that this unit is 12 volt, but I'm reading a lot of stuff about automotive hall effect sensors operating on a 5 V reference.  I can't find a confirming resource on this part, and my fear is that I may have blown this piece out. 

Any thoughts? 




The grand vizier of K engine management reappeared in the office today. He's getting on a bit; we don't see him often (well, we're all getting on but this guy was here when Noah rocked up asking about marinised powertrain applications, took a look, and decided to use sails and wind instead).

He's confident that the engine sensors run at a 5v supply, but that items such as the pedal position sensor run at 12v.

In that case, and it's all too late now, if the Holley EMS puts out 12v to the engine it's as certain as anything that long ago can be that the effect is catastrophic for the sensors. Worth thinking through what else might be toast and contributing to no-fire half the engine (but you probably did that many times by now). Guessing; like the wasted spark, the injectors are also paired and fire each revolution onto the back of the valve. Presumably the spark-plugs are dry in the no-fire cylinders..?

F

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7484 on: November 06, 2018, 06:45:06 AM »
11-6-2018 Weekday Update . . . . . . .

Well gang,

Because of a multitude of reasons, I missed several chances to get together with Chris over the last 3 or 4 weeks.   So, I took a chance last night and crossed the "cheddar curtain" to venture into Sconnie Nation to meet with "the midget" for dinner @ the "Brat Stop".    It was just for a low key dinner to catch up on life, and with little "discussion" about "the Project".    It was so low key, the midget opted for a soft drink in lieu of some brewed "Sconnie Nation Nectar", which seemed amiss.     There was some exchange of parts, and as I write this I am kicking myself for not remembering to bring along some of the bits still stacked up in my work space @ T&T that are extras, but K16 centric.

The pressure of the year, and not just the racing schedule, has taken its' toll on everybody.   Midget looks a bit haggard, no doubt mostly due to "job pressures" . . . . . . 'cause we all know racing is nothing but FUN! ? ! ? ? ? ? ?   right?
I looked in a mirror the other day . . . . .  and I wasn't sure anybody was home . . . . .  and I didn't recognize the guy who eventually peeked out from behind the curtains . . . . .

Further work on the on the EFI and "pre-dyno tune" is due to recommence in a week or so.    But the weather and the Holidays may interfere . . . . . . .

Perhaps the midget will chime in with an update as what the schedule will be . . . . .

 :dhorse:  :dhorse:  :dhorse:
Ifeellikeabeatendeadhorseboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

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