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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1891361 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7110 on: May 02, 2018, 12:06:23 PM »
Okay - just to clarify . . .

By "doublers", we're talking steel reinforcement on the outside of the frame rails?

This kind of a deal?

Doubler by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

Because that would be doable.

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7111 on: May 02, 2018, 02:42:50 PM »
It sure would be advantageous to locate the motor mount(s) as low as possible to minimize the leverage the lateral shaking would have on the upright section and hence the frame sheet metal.  Triangulating and/or gussets inside the frame would be good too if accessible.  Instead of the angle iron foot, perhaps an inverted U over the frame extending down to the lower flange of the frame member. 

Also, seems like an awful lot of open ports to be present in a fabrication situation.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7112 on: May 02, 2018, 04:02:04 PM »
Nothing in the engine, yet.  It'll get a thorough cleaning before we proceed.

There IS an arm - cast into the girdle - on the passenger side by the starter that aligns up nicely with the frame rail and might make for additional lateral control.  The driver's side upright went in at an 11 1/2 degree angle, but is about 3/4" longer.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7113 on: May 02, 2018, 06:28:28 PM »
Chris,
In the Frankensprite I put appropriate size 1/8" wall square inside the original sheetmetal frame rail all the way back to the transmission crossmember and plug welded the two together. Can't remember what size it was but it was off the shelf stuff. And it fit nice and snug.
Terry

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7114 on: May 02, 2018, 08:51:43 PM »
Terry, I'm past that point in that I've got tow mounts welded to the front of the frame rails, and would have to tear the whole front end off to do it that way - although it certainly worked in the Frankensprite!

Not as far as I had hoped - never am, it seems.  Nevertheless, this is what we've got with everything cut and in place -

moun t1 by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

mount2 by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

It's an 11.5 degree angle on the driver's side.  I'm pleased that I got it this tight considering what I'm working with.

Still need to fit the tubes - that'll have to wait for this weekend.

I'm thinking we've got room for headers.



"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7115 on: May 02, 2018, 08:59:32 PM »
Chris;

You might want to "fishmouth" or angle cut the ends of the angle that your vertical tubes will be welded to. When an angle is straight-cut, the vibration is concentrated in one line along the weld. This leads to earlier fatigue failure that one cut & welded to the frame on an angle. That way the stress is distributed.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline dannyw

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7116 on: May 02, 2018, 09:52:47 PM »
+2 what Neil said. 
You must get sick and tired of all the kibitzing going on....I know I do on my projects....but we are all with you, looking forward to some awesome performances coming soon to our local computer stations....
 :dhorse: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7117 on: May 02, 2018, 10:21:35 PM »
Chris;

You might want to "fishmouth" or angle cut the ends of the angle that your vertical tubes will be welded to. When an angle is straight-cut, the vibration is concentrated in one line along the weld. This leads to earlier fatigue failure that one cut & welded to the frame on an angle. That way the stress is distributed.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Okay, I haven't welded anything yet, and I know what you mean by a fishmouth cut, but I'm unclear where this should occur.
+2 what Neil said. 
You must get sick and tired of all the kibitzing going on....I know I do on my projects....but we are all with you, looking forward to some awesome performances coming soon to our local computer stations....
 :dhorse: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

I've said this before, and I'll say it again - I'm receiving information from one of the greatest brain-trusts in racing on this forum - that's you folks. 

I've taken some advice, ignored some advice, been proven right, been proven wrong, ducked a few bullets, taken a few in the nads, wiped egg from my face - but I ALWAYS appreciate the input, and I thank you all.

100 days out - lots to do.   :cheers: 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7118 on: May 02, 2018, 11:22:32 PM »
On the cut ends of the angle/doubler.


Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline forker

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7119 on: May 03, 2018, 04:03:06 AM »
Ref exhaust manifold configuration, if you'd like an RHS rack I expect I can find one and ship it to an address of your choice in the colony.

More work just now doesn't seem like what you need, though!

F

Offline dannyw

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7120 on: May 03, 2018, 08:57:29 PM »
The RHD racks for the Spridgets* are the same part as the LHD Morris Minor, (and vice versa,) so there are a few of them here in the colonies. They are usually found mixed in with the Spridget racks, or were some years back. I found mine in 1979 by taking all of a local salvage yards "Spridget" racks and laying them out on the ground. One was backwards...a LHD Minor part mixed in. Today they all might be a bit more scarce.
All other parts are interchangeable from side to side, except for the dashboard, hydraulic lines and wiring, so it's a relatively simple swap.
However, the Milwaukee Midget has a cage built around the LHD configuration, so I doubt that option is in the books for this car.   :cheers:

* our colonial name for the Austin-Healey Sprite and MG Midget series of cars, which are pretty identical under the body sheet metal.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7121 on: May 03, 2018, 09:59:14 PM »

However, the Milwaukee Midget has a cage built around the LHD configuration, so I doubt that option is in the books for this car.   :cheers:


Unless I want to straddle the support -

No, I'll keep it left handed.

Work interfered again today - kept me late, so no garage time, other than flowcharting the rest of the motor mount project.  That's fine - when I get home tomorrow, I can just grab the list and go in order, rather than having to think about it.

I did get a couple of parts in today.  New clutch kit, including the throw-out bearing, whch got knackered up a bit, and a new hall effect cam sensor with pigtail. 

I need to figure this out, and I'm going straight to the factory representative with this one.

Mr. Forker, might you be able to get me an insight into this?

There are three wires in the pigtail - Red, Green and Black.  It's intended for a standard MG/Rover K-series, and the aftermarket cam has a lobe to activate the sensor.

My question is this - how do I wire this thing up?  Am I to assume Red is 12V +, Black is earth, and the sensor send is Green?

Thanks.

Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline forker

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7122 on: May 04, 2018, 03:04:53 AM »
My word; that's a deep dive into the cellars. Looking.....

Company service info doesn't recognise this level of detail for the LR model using K1.8. Rover is no more; aftermarket now supports all of those owners.

Turning to cumulative wisdom of those who were here during those days and are still here now;

To our understanding, the connector on the pigtail has three flat pins in a row. It's rectangular in cross-section. It has a moulding with two ribs on both long sides, one side close together, one side far apart (relatively).

Holding the connector with the far-apart ribs down and looking from the wiring side, so seeing the individual wires as they enter the 'back' of the connector moulding,  pin 1 is the RH pin, pin 2 central, and pin 3 LH side.

In that context pin 3 is ground, pin 2 is signal, pin 1 is +12v.

It seems that the centre pin is signal, whether viewed from the pin side or the wire side of the connector moulding. Checking now if we have a view of polarity sensitivity...

It also seems the feature on the cam that the cam sensor sees is a step-up in diameter and a step-down in diameter 180' apart. It looks like a small balance weight, or a flange that's removed over half its' circumference. The sensor sees steel appear near to it, then disappear. The sensor signal will be a spike in one direction when it sees step-up in dia and steel appears, other direction when it sees step-down in dia.

So, if the collected wisdom turns out to be tosh but the sensor isn't fried then the signal will be wrong by 180' camshaft rotation.

Oh, did you perhaps get an engine harness on the donor motor? Guess not, or you'd have looked at that already.

More later...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:53:59 AM by forker »

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7123 on: May 06, 2018, 12:24:54 PM »
Chris,
Regarding the cam position sensor, most late model ECUs don't use cam position. The cam position was sensed mostly as a method to see when no. 1 cylinder was under compression and ready for spark. I know that the ECU that I had on my Ford Focus 2 liter had a cam position sensor input but the manufacture said it was only for starting and because the ignition configuration of my ECU for 4 cylinder engines was a "wasted spark" set up, i.e. no.1 and no.3 fire at the same time as do no. 2 and 4, so of the cylinders is on compression the other is on exhaust, the cam sensor was not needed. If your ECU is configured for wasted spark then the cam position sensor may not be needed. I know on my Focus it started on the first turn usually so the cam sensor was redundant.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7124 on: May 06, 2018, 03:53:31 PM »
Rex, I thought the same thing, but the Holley EFI needs the input to let the injectors know when to fire.  We're running a 60 - 2 timing wheel, and when it shuts down, it doesn't recognize the difference between compression and exhaust on reboot.  

It WILL RUN, but in batch-fire mode, rather than sequentially.  The Holley can also be run wasted spark.

In addition, we have adjustable timing gears on the cams, so having an accurate signal with regard to fuel timing events can let us get it a lot closer right out of the box, and we can then make the tweaks in the computer.  We can log in any advance or retard we physically dial into the cam straight into the program, and maintain the relative sequence with respect to crank rotation, if necessary - or desirable - or keep it tied to the valve events.

Of course, all of this depends upon when the kit shows up.  I know my Holley dealer has been screaming at the supplier - it's good having a noisy lion in your corner.  But I was able to get custom pistons in less time.

 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 06:25:30 PM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!