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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1891351 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7050 on: April 13, 2018, 07:18:28 PM »
Well, while we're adding it up -

The finish print from Saenz gives us this -

Big end - 380
Small end - 116

Total - 496

The original stock piston and rod combo, including rings - is 766.

So 867, less rings . . .

So we've added about 100+ grams to each assembly.

I'm glad we specified a shorter stroke and 3/8 rod bolts.

I'm equally grateful we're dealing with 5 main bearings, rather than 3.

Nevertheless, we'll skip the laughing gas.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7051 on: April 13, 2018, 07:25:00 PM »
Friday the 13th, Progress Report . . . . . Major Update . . . . . segment ein

Final positioning starter and mock-up plate . . . .

Long awaited . . . .  Fits like a glove . . . . . no acquittal . . .  :wink:







Just enough clearance, in both planes . . .












The inner starter mount bolt is just barely accessible, with a long shank hex ball driver.    Safety wired on installation.    Starter change in the car . . . . . . difficult at best.

More later . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Finalcountdownboy
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:34:30 PM by fordboy628 »
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7052 on: April 13, 2018, 07:30:02 PM »
Well, while we're adding it up -

The finish print from Saenz gives us this -

Big end - 380
Small end - 116

Total - 496

The original stock piston and rod combo, including rings - is 766.

So 867, less rings . . .

So we've added about 100+ grams to each assembly.

I'm glad we specified a shorter stroke and 3/8 rod bolts.

I'm equally grateful we're dealing with 5 main bearings, rather than 3.

Nevertheless, we'll skip the laughing gas.

THIS, is EXACTLY the reason I specified 3/8" diameter rod bolts . . . . . .

You are welcome.

I'll punch in the weights to calculate the bolt load later on, started on it today.    Bolt load is HIGH, and will increase with higher rpm . . . . .

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Beenthereboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7053 on: April 13, 2018, 07:42:02 PM »
Friday the 13th, Progress Report? ? ? ? . . . . . Major Update . . . . . segment zwei

Goat Explosion part ? ? ? ? . . . .

You can NEVER have too much:  Dr. Pepper or Claussen Pickles . . . . . . .  JMHO . . . . . .



More later . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Finalcountdownboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7054 on: April 13, 2018, 07:46:18 PM »
Friday the 13th, Progress Report . . . . . Major Update . . . . . segment drei

We don't need your stinkin' gasket . . . . .



Marked out and ready to rock and roll . . . . . .


More more, later later . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Finalcountdownboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7055 on: April 13, 2018, 07:56:56 PM »
Friday the 13th, Progress Report . . . . . Major Update . . . . . segment vier

Viking boy, melting stuff together . . . . .

Seriously bolted together for setup . . . . .






More, more, more, later, later, later . . . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Finalcountdownboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7056 on: April 13, 2018, 08:12:05 PM »
And finally . . . .

Friday the 13th, Progress Report . . . . . Major Update . . . . . segment fünf

The finished product . . . . . . .

I don't even want to think about how many man hours went into this oil pan modification.   4 people worked on this: me, midget, wiggle pin and viking boy . . . and possibly others I have forgotten to mention! ! ! ! ! ! !








Pretty decent penetration.








It gets a leakage test tomorrow for any small pinhole defects.   Stay tuned.

Done, done and done.   For tonight anyway . . . . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Tiredoutboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline handyguy

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7057 on: April 13, 2018, 09:47:23 PM »
SO YEAH , WHERE does it seep from AFTER you put it on  ??

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7058 on: April 13, 2018, 10:29:40 PM »
I've done similar modifications to a few aluminum pans over the years and despite the above comment never had an issue using very similar methods to what you used.

Looks good guys!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7059 on: April 14, 2018, 12:10:26 AM »
Nice!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7060 on: April 14, 2018, 05:44:42 AM »

SO YEAH , WHERE does it seep from AFTER you put it on  ??


Well, I don't discount the possibility of seepage after installation.   It is a risk with modifications like this.    Problem was, if you recall, that the oil pan was going to "groove the salt" in the unmodified condition.   So, something HAD to be done . . . . . .     I'll take my chances that any defects after the fact will be minimal.    If they are not, we do not run.    Simple as that.    But I'll bet the "over" on this issue.

BUT, anyone who has worked on early Cosworths or, say, Jaguar V-12's, is familiar with "seepage", both oil and water, from unmodified, stock castings.     British alloy castings were notorious for these defects.     In fact, in both of the Coventry Climax books I've read, Walter Hassan describes various methods used by the Prototype department to seal up expensive castings for their F1 race engines.    Cosworth had the same issues, which prompted them to invent and patent a casting process engineered to eliminate casting porosity.

When I was building Jag V-12 based race engines 30 odd years ago, I had to establish a protocol for sealing ALL the bare casting with silicon silicate PRIOR to any machine work or assembly.   This was to prevent the seepage from the stock castings, which had been "accepted" by the previous builder and the team.    Unfortunately, this cost the team a couple of engines.  The situation required "correction".

I seem to recall that a lot of bike engine powered vehicles have to deal with "seepage", both oil and water, as a matter of course.    We'll see where we end up on that spectrum.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7061 on: April 14, 2018, 05:55:37 AM »
I've done similar modifications to a few aluminum pans over the years and despite the above comment never had an issue using very similar methods to what you used.

Looks good guys!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Thanks Pete.

As you are are no doubt aware, the keys to a good weld are the preparation beforehand, proper selection of materials and filler rod, the skill of the operator during the actual process, and any pre-heat or post heat required.   We did all of those, so I am not too concerned, but as I said, I'm going to do further checks.

On a personal note, I could have "melted the parts together".    I used to be a pretty good welder, even certified at one point.    But good welding is a perishable skill, which is why I had Tom do the work.    He is in practice and on his game, which belies a better result.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7062 on: April 14, 2018, 05:56:51 AM »
Nice!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Thanks Neil.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline WhizzbangK.C.

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7063 on: April 14, 2018, 08:18:16 AM »

SO YEAH , WHERE does it seep from AFTER you put it on  ??


Well, I don't discount the possibility of seepage after installation.   It is a risk with modifications like this.    Problem was, if you recall, that the oil pan was going to "groove the salt" in the unmodified condition.   So, something HAD to be done . . . . . .     I'll take my chances that any defects after the fact will be minimal.    If they are not, we do not run.    Simple as that.    But I'll bet the "over" on this issue.

BUT, anyone who has worked on early Cosworths or, say, Jaguar V-12's, is familiar with "seepage", both oil and water, from unmodified, stock castings.     British alloy castings were notorious for these defects.     In fact, in both of the Coventry Climax books I've read, Walter Hassan describes various methods used by the Prototype department to seal up expensive castings for their F1 race engines.    Cosworth had the same issues, which prompted them to invent and patent a casting process engineered to eliminate casting porosity.

When I was building Jag V-12 based race engines 30 odd years ago, I had to establish a protocol for sealing ALL the bare casting with silicon silicate PRIOR to any machine work or assembly.   This was to prevent the seepage from the stock castings, which had been "accepted" by the previous builder and the team.    Unfortunately, this cost the team a couple of engines.  The situation required "correction".

I seem to recall that a lot of bike engine powered vehicles have to deal with "seepage", both oil and water, as a matter of course.    We'll see where we end up on that spectrum.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

That has been a decades long situation in the Harley motor world. The long accepted solution has been to paint the insides of the castings with Glyptal red alkyd. I've used it and seen it used for years and have never seen evidence of a failure of the product itself or caused by it. Just make sure that the surface is clean when applied and cure it per the instructions.
Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of.  Douglas Adams

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #7064 on: April 14, 2018, 10:23:43 AM »
Fordboy;

The red Glyptal that KC suggested is a good method of sealing porosity; there is one other that I know of- painting the casting with Loctite 290.

Cast magnesium wheels were notorious for having porous castings, causing the tires to loose air pressure. We painted the inside of the mag wheels with Loctite 290 and a 2" paintbrush. The Loctite penetrated into the pores and cured, sealing the wheels very effectively.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ