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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1891354 times)

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6915 on: March 24, 2018, 09:14:23 AM »

Busy day south of the Cheddar Curtain.

Mark took a buttload of pictures which he'll eventually post up.  I'll let him describe his work, but it's safe to say that the 360 bearing oil scheme is a complete success.

Me?  I fettled.

I fettled the oil pan - I fettled the new plate for the oil pan - I fettled the oil ports in the oil pump.

When Tommy at T&T gets around to welding up the oil pan, it should be easy sailing.


Ah yes, the "fettling" porn, er, photos . . . . . . .

Final fitted (fettled? ?) lower sump plate, . . . . . . now there is a quick job, . . . . . .  I'll let midget tell how much time he spent on the final welding prep.   The casting was ground to remove any surface oxidation, to get a nicer looking and better weld.    And the plate was "ground back" to provide room for a nice fillet weld.    Should be nuclear reactor (as in US Navy Nuclear) quality when finished.

And let this be another lesson in how much time is "invested" in doing things "correctly".    We racers are all too "optimisty" about the amount of time it takes to get things done.
And then, we always "make" the time to redo it properly.    This should be the "only" time for this facet of this build up.



Uhh, midget, I'm not going to mention who took this photo with my older digital camera . . . . . . . .   you are supposed to be able to see the newly radiused oil pump inlet port . . . . .
Don't stare too long, you'll go cross-eyed . . . . . . . :roll:


I'll get a clearer shot with the "closeup function" later.

More porn, er, photos, when I have more time.    It was a productive day, and no "confidentiality agreements" were signed . . . . . . . :wink:

Although, I'm unsure if we were doing brain or hemorrhoid surgery . . . . . .    :|

 :cheers: :dhorse: :cheers:
Crankfitterboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6916 on: March 24, 2018, 09:29:15 AM »
You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-178.835 2010

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6917 on: March 24, 2018, 11:47:22 AM »
You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:

Meah . . . Flat enough for what we're doing.

The pan is a fairly heavy ribbed casting, which actually has (had) engine and transmission mounting bosses for various transverse applications.

If the casting is clamped down to the girdle before it's welded, I'm pretty certain we won't encounter any warpage severe enough to cause problems.

And this is the point where Mark steps up and says, "Stop worrying about it", followed by a bullet point list numbered "1" through "g"!   :-D :cheers:

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6918 on: March 24, 2018, 12:20:34 PM »
If I were doing the job I'd probably have the girdle bolted to the block as well to ensure absolute rigidity.

You did an excellent job of preparation for the welding Chris. Proper preparation and cleanliness lead to a much higher quality weld.

Pete

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6919 on: March 24, 2018, 12:33:32 PM »
I have found that "the right stuff" works well for pans. Doesn't leak, fills gaps. Disassembly is a bitch though. :roll: :roll:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-178.835 2010

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6920 on: March 24, 2018, 01:42:40 PM »
You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:

Yes.


You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:

Meah . . . Flat enough for what we're doing.

The pan is a fairly heavy ribbed casting, which actually has (had) engine and transmission mounting bosses for various transverse applications.

If the casting is clamped down to the girdle before it's welded, I'm pretty certain we won't encounter any warpage severe enough to cause problems.

And this is the point where Mark steps up and says, "Stop worrying about it", followed by a bullet point list numbered "1" through "g"!
 :-D :cheers:


I typically use:

A/
2/
d/

It is an obscure homage to a line in a favorite movie of mine, "Home Alone".    Uttered by the deep thinker, Buzz McCallister . . . . . . .

https://www.google.com/search?q=home+alone+a+2+d&rlz=1C1CAFB_enUS728US730&oq=home+alone+A%2C+2+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.13783j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I usually try to keep it brief and use only 3 points, simply to remain faithful to the intent of the movie's writer . . . . . . . .  :roll:


BUT, sometimes:

B/   I just need more points,
3/   Or, I might be "feelin' groovy" . . . er, wordy . . . . .
e/   Or, I might be ? ? ? ?   and have a need for "the burner to be turned all the way up".


Who can say?    No fair asking my psychiatrist,

C/   The esteemed Dr. Crane.
4/   Or is it Dr. Kroger?
f/    Or perhaps Dr. Bell?
x/   But in all likelihood, it's probably Dr. Phil.    I like his practical approach.

There, you see how that happened.    Just kinda slipped out.

Oh yeah, STOP WORRYING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.    Worry about that 25% tariff you are going to be hit with at U.S. Customs . . . . . .



If I were doing the job I'd probably have the girdle bolted to the block as well to ensure absolute rigidity.

You did an excellent job of preparation for the welding Chris. Proper preparation and cleanliness lead to a much higher quality weld.

Pete


D/   Girdle/ladder will be bolted firmly to the block,
5/   Sump/pan will be bolted firmly to the girdle,
g/   Sump and plate will be preheated,
y/   Filler rod will be 4043, to reduce the chance of cracking in or near the weld zone,
z/   We will post heat or peen, if required.


Again, you see what happens? ?

Even when you intend to limit yourself to three "bullet points", it isn't always possible.

 :dhorse: :cheers: :dhorse:
Morelaterboy
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 01:47:07 PM by fordboy628 »
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6921 on: March 24, 2018, 01:59:42 PM »
You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:

Yes.


Reason I ask (besides the usual being clueless and understanding that welding stuff tends to pull things) is way back when I managed to ventilate an unobtanium (aluminum) block with a rod that melted a journal due to detonation and insufficient oil pressure (at about 260 mph running on 2.5 of 4 cyls at the time_) and I got it fixed by a superior welder where you could not see the repair. My machinist said " you are going to have to machine every surface (including main bores, deck, pan rails, oil pump mount, bell housing etc etc) to get it straight again. :-( :? 8-) :cheers:" He was right...... :dhorse: Onwards and upwards. Looking forward to the upcoming dyno testing by Easter..... :-D
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-178.835 2010

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6922 on: March 24, 2018, 02:11:46 PM »
My machinist said " you are going to have to machine every surface (including main bores, deck, pan rails, oil pump mount, bell housing etc etc) to get it straight again.

We'll see.  Regarding alignment, we installed bearings yesterday, clamped everything down, and the crank turned brilliantly.

Keep in mind, we had the block re-sleeved, which required extensive block modifications and preparations.  It's my hope the weld up of the pan doesn't significantly alter what appears to be a square block, but we'll know more shortly.

Looking forward to the upcoming dyno testing by Easter..... :-D


 :|

Trying to stay optimistic and ambitious, but I'll be happy if the short block is together by Easter.

Let's hope for Memorial Day on the dyno?
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6923 on: March 24, 2018, 02:18:04 PM »
You think that pan will be flat when you get done welding? :evil: :evil: :cheers:

Yes.



Reason I ask (besides the usual being clueless and understanding that welding stuff tends to pull things) is way back when I managed to ventilate an unobtanium (aluminum) block with a rod that melted a journal due to detonation and insufficient oil pressure (at about 260 mph running on 2.5 of 4 cyls at the time_) and I got it fixed by a superior welder where you could not see the repair. My machinist said " you are going to have to machine every surface (including main bores, deck, pan rails, oil pump mount, bell housing etc etc) to get it straight again. :-( :? 8-) :cheers:" He was right...... :dhorse: Onwards and upwards. Looking forward to the upcoming dyno testing by Easter..... :-D


Well in this instance, we are only welding the pan/sump.   Two pieces removed from the block.   You will know whether we accomplished "brain surgery" or "hemorrhoid surgery" because I will be honest about the result.


And YES, I have seen the same result when welding up alloy blocks.     Repaired, but distorted enough to require complete "re-machining".      It just depends on how rare or expensive the block is.     BUT, the bottom line is:   ALL race parts, have a finite lifespan.

Just like humans . . . . . . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Feelin'myageboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6924 on: March 24, 2018, 02:21:14 PM »
When you're talking bearing lines and head to block surfaces thousandths of an inch are critical and certainly everything needs to be machined. There was a Ford overhead cam four cylinder head that used to crack between the valves that a friend of mine used to repair on a regular basis for several of the local dealers. He used an extremely rigid jig to minimize distortion and even then the head required complete machining. It was still more economical than replacing the head. It's a very common procedure to weld drag racing blocks and heads. I remember a time when drag racers used to refer to blocks by the number of windows that had been repaired. They may still for all I know.

On the other hand cast aluminum covers of various kinds are successfully welded all the time and bolted right back on. That type of casting isn't rigid enough to cause problems with the bolted, gasketed joint and if necessary it can be lightly trued on a simple surface plate. Firmly clamping it or bolting it before the welding is usually all that's required.

Pete

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6925 on: March 24, 2018, 02:21:34 PM »
My machinist said " you are going to have to machine every surface (including main bores, deck, pan rails, oil pump mount, bell housing etc etc) to get it straight again.

We'll see.  Regarding alignment, we installed bearings yesterday, clamped everything down, and the crank turned brilliantly.

Keep in mind, we had the block re-sleeved, which required extensive block modifications and preparations.  It's my hope the weld up of the pan doesn't significantly alter what appears to be a square block, but we'll know more shortly.

Looking forward to the upcoming dyno testing by Easter..... :-D


 :|

Trying to stay optimistic and ambitious, but I'll be happy if the short block is together by Easter.

Let's hope for Memorial Day on the dyno?

All I know about the dyno testing by Easter thing, not gonna happen.    Sorry to pop everyone's bubble.

Still waiting on parts, and there is heavy duty machine work to finish, once the parts arrive.

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Busyboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6926 on: March 24, 2018, 03:42:18 PM »
 :wink: just tugging on the chain previously pulled :evil:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-178.835 2010

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6927 on: March 24, 2018, 05:03:13 PM »
:wink: just tugging on the chain previously pulled :evil:

Funny you should mention chain pulling . . .

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1912/6687/

 :cheers:

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6928 on: March 24, 2018, 11:46:56 PM »
Minor update:

Coolant outlet Porn!! . . . . . er, photos . . . . . .

So you end up spending time on some things that are just typically taken for granted . . . . . . .


With the new exhaust flange installed on the head, an alternate provision for coolant outflow is required.



This beaded water pipe connector is from CSR Products.








Since I wanted the outlet neck centered over the cast passage in the head, I made a template of the space available:




And the fitted plate.   Fabricated from 1/2" thick 6061T6.




Yeah, I know it's overkill, but the material was leftovers from one of the midget's previous dyno adaptors.    Poetic, isn't it?
And I'm a charter member of the "clean plate club".




The tapped plate.     3/4" NPT








The finished product.







Another "small job" that "consumed a morning".     One more detail out of a thousand . . . . .


And that, boys and girls, is why racers are hopeless optimists . . . . . . . .  and why EVERYTHING takes longer than you think it will.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I'mafflictedtooboy

P.S.   Hopefully, I'll soon be obsessing over the details of the flies I'm tying.    I'll be the same Mark, just a different blog on a different board . . . . . . .
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 11:50:51 PM by fordboy628 »
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6929 on: March 25, 2018, 12:29:24 AM »
Cam drive adjuster update:

More Porn!! . . . . . er, photos . . . . .

Just another example of a detail modification, that is not utilized on typical racing Rover K 4 valves.

I'm not even attempting to keep track of the time invested in this project anymore . . . . .      Why bother?

From Friday's visit to the lands south of the Cheddar Curtain.   Marathon machining, fettling and photo session . . . . . .


The setup on the vertical mill.    Sort of an oversized drill press . . . . .



Post drilling, getting the threads started straight without a dedicated tapping head.



Finish tapping by hand.    Less chance of tap breakage . . . . . .



Special order, oversized O.D. ARP stud installed in the original mounting boss, original location.    10mm x 1.5 Vs the original 8mm x 1.25 from the "sprung" belt tensioner.



And the tapping fluid of choice:  Tap Magic for Aluminum   works great!    Heed the warning label . . . .



Both heads were modified, as before with the clearancing for the transmission adaptor plate.


Just another one of the countless details . . . . . .

 :dhorse: :dhorse: :dhorse:
Workerbeeboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein