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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1719156 times)
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jacksoni
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« Reply #6600 on: January 08, 2018, 08:32:05 AM »

"From what I've been reading, for idle and midrange, peak-and-hold seems to be the way to go."

And you are interested in this Why? It is Bonneville after all. WFO 99.9% of the time.  rolleyes evil

Is my understanding most "modern" systems (as in current street cars) use the low current/high impedance injectors but the choice may be determined by your ECU/system, not your choice. Aftermarket systems have been going that way as well and the range of injector flows has gone way up for high output systems. You are not in that category for flow so the range of available is wide. Some aftermarket systems will drive either. Driveability, turbo applications, emissions are not your issue so simple can work though yes, you want it tuneable and it needs to idle and yes the mid range has to be set as you go through it once in first gear on the way to a new record.... cheers

Talk to the guy (fordboy too) who will be tuning it and get their input. Not sure about Holly systems designed for big V8s running a 1L well. Experience here counts. Consider Megasquirt (I have no experience; I use something else which runs low impedance injectors quite well- idles easily and runs strong in all ranges) DIY Autotune markets Megasquirt both kits and assembled as well as other parts.  Last I spoke with him, had a very experienced tuner working for them who has Bonneville experience and who has posted here in the past. Goes by Dieselgeek. Blocking his name at this instance. I have used FiveOMotorsports for injector sourcing also.
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Jack Iliff
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« Reply #6601 on: January 08, 2018, 09:58:37 AM »

"From what I've been reading, for idle and midrange, peak-and-hold seems to be the way to go."

And you are interested in this Why? It is Bonneville after all. WFO 99.9% of the time.  rolleyes evil


Actually, I don't know if I am.  The flip-side of the equation is that I've read little advantage to WOT application from a peak-and-hold system.

I really don't want to tear into a Megasquirt and re-configure wires on a circuit board or go with additional modules to accommodate the coil pacs I already have - that's a little too "Heathkit".
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6602 on: January 08, 2018, 11:19:04 AM »

High current means high heat.
High heat is the quickest way to kill electronics.

I'll be adding coil triggers to my new MicroSquirt to separate the high heat/ current from the ECU.

Sam
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« Reply #6603 on: January 08, 2018, 03:11:18 PM »

MM, I am sure you understand my comment was very tongue in cheek. I don't think for Bonneville the type of driver/injector makes much difference. What the ECU is telling the injector though, is important ie the tune/ temp, press, altitude etc adjustments. Not pushing the megasquirt at all but I suspect any configuration you want (for your individual wasted spark coils etc) can be had without you having to rewire it. Software output.
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« Reply #6604 on: January 08, 2018, 03:37:58 PM »

Chris,
Not sure which ECU you are looking at but AEM has a unit almost specifically designed to small 4 bangers and I know their stuff works very well, lots of records at the salt with their equipment. Talk to Nathan Stewart, he drives Skip Pipe's roadster. Great guy and really knows AEM stuff.
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« Reply #6605 on: January 10, 2018, 12:24:20 AM »

Alright - off to "ill annoy" again tomorrow.  Weather has finally broke, and we're expecting 40+ degrees - and rain.

The things I do for dollar tacos . . .

Fordboy's been bustin' his hump the last few weeks on this - Again, a thousand "thank-yous". 

But I really want to get a good talk in with Tom on Wednesday regarding the Holley system, so I'll just keep shelling out the bucks and listen between the cilantro and tomatoes.

Much to do -
 
A - mill the manifold
B - cut and drill the TB brackets
C - sort out the linkage - I'm bringing some extraneous Weber and SU pieces
D - determine the throttle position sensor mounting and type - probably a GM piece of some sort
E - move ahead on plumbing - I've got enough aluminum tubing in my truck to build a small Zippe centrifuge 
F - time permitting, pull the trigger on the oil pan chop - for which I bought sufficient plate

Ordered up the 16v battery and charger today - should see it on Friday.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #6606 on: January 10, 2018, 07:11:11 AM »

Tangent:  Did any of you ever want to see quantification of the difference between Wisconsin people and Illinois folks?  Like, a real example of how differently they think?


 rolleyes


* Screen shot 2018-01-10 at 7.09.22 AM.png (11.32 KB, 144x159 - viewed 291 times.)

* Screen shot 2018-01-10 at 6.13.22 AM.png (9.88 KB, 94x125 - viewed 293 times.)
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #6607 on: January 10, 2018, 07:45:44 AM »

True - I'm not nearly as well organized as Fordboy . . .

But by including letters AND digits, you go from a list that will fit onto a single sheet of college ruled notebook paper - to an infinated number of projects . . . +26.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6608 on: January 10, 2018, 10:24:06 PM »



Much to do -
 
A - mill the manifold - DONE
B - cut and drill the TB brackets - DONE
C - sort out the linkage - I'm bringing some extraneous Weber and SU pieces - DONE, with the added bonus that I left 'em with Mark, cleaning out another corner of my basement
D - determine the throttle position sensor mounting and type - probably a GM piece of some sort - DONE  . . . AND it is
E - move ahead on plumbing - I've got enough aluminum tubing in my truck to build a small Zippe centrifuge - DONE, without having to go nuclear
F - time permitting, pull the trigger on the oil pan chop - for which I bought sufficient plate - BEGAN with a trip to Mundelein AND delivered to Mike Hart to perform the chop.

Ordered up the 16v battery and charger today - should see it on Friday. AND received tracking information indicating just that.

Mark - THANK YOU!  cheers

Will try to pull pics from my phone - a solid day.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:25:40 PM by Milwaukee Midget » Logged

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6609 on: January 11, 2018, 06:05:26 AM »

Further tangent . . . . . .

Tangent:  Did any of you ever want to see quantification of the difference between Wisconsin people and Illinois folks?  Like, a real example of how differently they think?


 rolleyes

SSS,

As a former resident and card carrying member of Illini nation, you understand only too well "la difference" between the residents of both states.

And as a former "educator", I have some suspicions that your cogitation process may place too much value on being "in ordnung". . . . .


On the other hand, I try not to worry about graphical restraints on the order of my thinking.    And mathematically speaking, I do not allow the limitations of regular letters and numbers.   I use those of negative and imaginary values with regularity, especially when they add humor value . . . . .  it just allows . . . . . more "possibilities" . . . . . .  wink   And, as someone astutely observed, I give "the box" little countenance.   It's not so much an Illini nation thing, as it is a Mark thing.    I'm fond of describing myself as: "Precisely, off center".


On a further note, I think a clarification is in order about my friend the midget.   Astute followers of his build diary know that Chris is a native Hawkeye, ie: born in Iowa.   I have come to recognize that his continued residence in Sconnie nation, is one of mere convenience.    Possible reasons might include:

A/   Continuing relationship with a woman of Sconnie nation heritage.   Ah, amour, who can explain it . . . . . . . . . .
2/   Residence conveniently situated to allow copious consumption, er sampling . . .  wink , of superb craft brews.   Or maybe he just wants to live in the suds consumption capital of the nation . . . . . .
d/   Or perchance, it might be a need to be able to purchase and consume marvelous fresh and smoked sausage.   Local meat processors "do their wurst" . . . . . .
z/   Other reasons I can't possibly perceive . . . . .

 cheers  cheers  cheers
Captainobvious
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« Reply #6610 on: January 11, 2018, 06:50:26 AM »

midget,

Your idea about using 1" BX flexible conduit is a great idea for exhaust system mockup.   1" BX has a 1.360" OD and is very close to the sizing needed.    I also think that you will need to fill the pipes with something, like the foam you suggested, to "stiffen" the pipes."    Perhaps SSS has some ideas for "pipe stiffening" he might be willing to share . . . . .

It does save the expense of an ICE system, but the beauty of the ICE system is the ease of cutting the segments.   Your idea requires a return to some "trial and error" fitting of the pipe segments.

 cheers
Fordboy
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #6611 on: January 11, 2018, 07:17:46 AM »

Fordboy said:   "...Perhaps SSS has some ideas for "pipe stiffening" he might be willing to share . . . . ."

Nancy's busy, so she's not gonna help, and

Sildenafil is available in a commercial paste form for doing such projects, so

That leaves Aaron's Rod.  It's an incantation used by Star, Empress of the 20 Universes and it makes thing stiff (exhaust pipes, ropes, or "that", too).  Let's see who's well-read here, and can finish the story about Star.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #6612 on: January 11, 2018, 07:21:02 AM »

THROTTLE BODY PORN! ! !

midget,

The first priority is to send off a BIG THANK YOU to Tom Olsen, T & T Racing Engines, for allowing us interlopers in his facility, to perform these various "co-mingling of the species" machining operations.   Most V8 guys just wouldn't understand . . . . .


My (P/B free) photos from yesterday's progress.    You get to provide descriptions if you want them this morning. . . . . .

AND, you might want to mention the clever way the throttles were originally actuated, and the amount of time that was expended on that.    Details . . . . . .

Also, had an idea about an idle stop adjustment that is independent of the throttle cable.   Going to check it out this morning, AFTER the Ford flow test . . . . .


Upper shot of the co-mingling of the species, K thermoplastic manifold mated with Suzuki/Kawasaki throttle bodies.   Stock fuel rail and stock water inlet pipe fitted for clearance checking.    Internally the sizing between the stock manifold and the throttle bodies is: Workable.    The cost factor is about 6%/7% of the cost of custom Jenvey throttle bodies, and YES, we did invest 12/15 man hours in fitting and fiddling and we are still not completely finished.    It will work out acceptably because the target bhp on the first iteration is 125/130, and not 170+.     When we have some success with this perversion, we will probably attempt to "ramp up the output".



Same subject matter from below.   We decided to keep one alignment bar long for the time being, until the TPS is worked out.



Top view without water pipe and without fuel rail and injectors.



Another lower shot showing throttle stop adjustment bolt.   Also showing stock water inlet/thermostat housing.   Yeah, it's thermoplastic . . . .
As yet, unsure if it will be reused.    It does provide some "convenience", but it needs a "risk assesment".




More detail of the stock water pipie and the water pump inlet/thermostat housing.
Water pipe routing for installation in the MM needs to turn 180 degrees to connect to the front mounted radiator.
Original engine installation in most Rover products is transverse, hence the stock water pipe heading around the back of the engine.




Before shot of the unmodified oil sump.   It is going to get "clipped", to provide more ground clearance.
Less sump volume is probably going to require using either an Accusump or a dry sump system.




 cheers
Photogboy
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 09:38:05 AM by fordboy628 » Logged

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
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« Reply #6613 on: January 11, 2018, 09:58:19 AM »

midget,

Just had a call from Mike.   He is going to modify the cut regime on the oil pan slightly.

The parallel slice is too uneven for welding the casting back up.   He is going to add some "tilt" back into the pan, so that the short side will be still "shorter", and cut the 3-1/4" side so that the finished, welded height will be 3-1/4".  It will help oil drainage and oil changes.   And we have to redo the oil pickup anyway so . . . .

It's why I like working with Mike, always thinking . . . . .

I gave his plan the OK.

 cheers
Busyboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
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« Reply #6614 on: January 11, 2018, 10:42:46 AM »

Well played.

I'll get back to you on the injector message.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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