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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1648147 times)
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manta22
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« Reply #6585 on: January 05, 2018, 11:26:14 AM »

"2/   Driven pullet..."  what kind of a chicken outfit is this?   grin

Seriously, instead of going to a 16V battery, how about using a buck-boost regulator? They convert an input voltage to a higher or lower adjustable output. For example, if you use a 12V battery input and have the regulator output voltage adjusted to 12V, things operate as normal. If the battery discharges to 11V, the regulator output stays at 12V. With a 12V battery input you could also adjust the regulator output to 13V or even higher... and hold it there as the battery discharges. The question is, how much current do you need- exclusive of the starter (if one is used)?



Regards, Neil
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Stainless1
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« Reply #6586 on: January 05, 2018, 11:33:13 AM »

Or you could steal an idea from the Burkdoll Klan..... the little blue truck with the drive shaft driven supercharger.... mount it on the rear end, you get your charge when you need it toward the end of the run...
Thinking outside your little box...car  cheers
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #6587 on: January 05, 2018, 11:33:44 AM »


"2/   Driven pullet..."  what kind of a chicken outfit is this?   grin


Oops! ! !

Well I guess spell check is not intention check . . . . .   Corrected now.   Thanks Neil.

Glad I didn't get caught by the comma cop . . . . . .

 cheers
IthoughtIwrotewhatImeantboy
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #6588 on: January 05, 2018, 12:21:07 PM »

"...IthoughtIwrotewhatImeantboy..."

Another way of saying "What?  Couldn't you read my thought bubble?"
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #6589 on: January 05, 2018, 12:38:51 PM »

Needs a new battery, anyway.

Class permits removing the alternator.

Neil, I like the techno-approach, but I want a ton of reserve with no reliability issues.  Looks like we're going with an electric water pump, in-tank fuel pump, efi.  And not that I would ever let the voltage drop to that level, but with a buck boost, you can be fooled into thinking you're running a full charge, and then it all falls off the table.

Stainless - I recall David Hobbs' BMW 320 IMSA car from the early 1980's used a similar set-up.  If I were running at Road America or Brainerd, I'd say yes, but this would be hanging out under the car, it would need to be attached to the axle, and I'm just not comfortable kicking up salt into an alternator.  It would be about where the fuel pump used to be, and that took a solid salination last time we ran.

$500.00 and I'm done.

Keeping this aspect simple is in my best interest.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
manta22
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« Reply #6590 on: January 05, 2018, 12:44:27 PM »

" And not that I would ever let the voltage drop to that level, but with a buck boost, you can be fooled into thinking you're running a full charge, and then it all falls off the table."

That is the whole idea of a buck-boost regulator, it wrings out all of the usable energy in a battery. Monitor the input battery voltage to keep tabs on the battery state of charge, not the output.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #6591 on: January 05, 2018, 12:45:06 PM »

We run a 16 volt battery with no problems. It is used for starting, MSD ignition and AEM data collection. At El Mirage a charge is good for a weekend, at Speedweek we charged it every night. Starting a high compression 4 cyl is much easier with the added voltage. FWIW most people I know running electronic fuel injection run alternators.
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« Reply #6592 on: January 05, 2018, 02:14:32 PM »

Chris,
If you are going to go with the electric pump I would highly recommend the Davis Craig pumps from Aussie land. They are the only people that will provide you with actually flow vs pressure curves that will help you select the pump. You will probably need at least 15 gpm at pressure, for your engine and you can easily select the right size pump using their info. All other electric pumps are rated at a zero outlet pressure which is really meaningless. The actual flow drops pretty rapidly as the pump out let pressure is increased.

Use lots of radiator pressure, 25 psi cap min, as this will keep the water around your exhaust valves from boiling and lots of flow to keep the water flow turbulent through the engine.

You mentioned the old David Hobbs/McLaren 320I, I actually owned that car for about 7-8 years with a friend of mine, Harry Haggard, and yes the alternator was driven off of one of the rear axles. It had a champ car quick change rear end with independent suspension and they had a vee belt pulley mounted to one of the CV joints. Not what I would suggest for your setup

Rex

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« Reply #6593 on: January 05, 2018, 02:21:30 PM »

One (big) battery for engine control, ignition, FI, data.
Second battery for everything else - water pump, fuel pump (?),  etc.

Solo electric water pump flow rate should be verified in-situ to assure adequacy.  (Electric water pump performance claims are nonsense.)  Or, generate pressure vs. flow data for the engine and the pump and see if cross-over is adequate.  The question is, what is adequate?

Might consider using the electric water pump to “supercharge” the stock water pump.  Would help with any cavitation concerns, reduce Hp loss, however flow rates would have to be compared.  Simpler than monkeying with speed reduction schemes. 

(Now I see Rex's previous reply, and see we have similar opinions of most electric pumps.)

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« Reply #6594 on: January 05, 2018, 05:10:43 PM »

"...IthoughtIwrotewhatImeantboy..."

Another way of saying "What?  Couldn't you read my thought bubble?"

And just why the heck not? ? ?    Weren't my thoughts coming through loud enough?

Maybe I should just take the tinfoil off of my head . . . . . . the outgoing signal might improve . . . . . .

But I'm not taking any responsibility for errant consonants, even if they are my fault.   That's a job for a "comma cop".   Last time I checked, the board had one of those already.    rolleyes

 cheers
Icanonlydosomuchboy
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« Reply #6595 on: January 07, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »

Okay - Wossner order winging its way to Noonan along with the requested chamber mold.  John, I hear you're on the mend from the November meet.  Drop me a PM if you read this before the package arrives.

Found my injectors and I'm working on a throttle body set-up utilizing a shortened stock manifold.

Let me throw this one out to those who have used EFI at Bonneville -

High impedance saturation injectors, or low impedance peak-and-hold?
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6596 on: January 07, 2018, 05:59:07 PM »

High impedance

Sam
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Stainless1
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« Reply #6597 on: January 07, 2018, 09:13:13 PM »


Found my injectors and I'm working on a throttle body set-up utilizing a shortened stock manifold.

Let me throw this one out to those who have used EFI at Bonneville -

High impedance saturation injectors, or low impedance peak-and-hold?

Are you using an aftermarket EFI or adapting something?  I believe my Suzuki, Honda s2000 and Seimons injectors are all high impedance. 
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #6598 on: January 07, 2018, 09:24:49 PM »

YAY FOR FLICKR!

This is how it's starting to mock up -

FSCN0976 by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

DSCN0977 by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

DSCN0978 by Chris Conrad, on Flickr

Okay - looks like I'm back to posting photos.  And to Photobucket . . . FLICKR YOU!

Certainly not as pretty as a Weber DCOE - but this looks like it just might work.

I purchased these aftermarket throttle bodies for a KZ1000 about 2 years ago.  I have NO IDEA who makes them, but they're clean and the right size - ~38mm.

Mentioned previously, we whittled down one of my stock k-series manifolds, and once we get the ends machined down to a consistent height between the four ports and blend the intake to the throttle bodies, other than bracketing - which I bought screws for today - we should be pretty much good to go. 

What saves a lot of time with this is that the injector angle is spot-on for the application.  A fabricated manifold would have taken days and dollars to make work.

Will need to produce a proper fuel rail - this one is cracked, but serviceable for a mock-up.

The one issue with the new throttle bodies is that they have two injector bungs on them, which I suspect were in place for two fuel rails to support an NO2 set-up on the previous installation.  I'll be using neither.

A trip down to American Science and Surplus may have solved the problem.  Picked up some "0" sized 13mm tapered test tube stoppers, and they fit rather nicely.  My thinking is that I can trim them down, tap threads above shoulders in the injector bung, and secure them in place with set screws of some variety.  At least that's the idea I've been muddling over in my ice-encrusted noodle this weekend.

Sam mentioned he supported high impedance for Bonneville, but didn't mention why. 

From what I've been reading, for idle and midrange, peak-and-hold seems to be the way to go.  But from an electronic point of view, I'm liking the circuitry "safety cushion" that lower amperage drivers and high impedance systems offer.  I do understand that they need to be "finessed" more, but honestly, anything has to be more accurate than the controlled leaks of a carburetor circuit.

Please, share your experiences with either or both.

Stainless - still deciding on an ECU.  I've got a bit of a handle on the Electromotive systems, and they make a 4 cylinder sports car system utilizing high impedance injectors, as well as their other low impedance systems.  Both data log, but the 4 cylinder system requires I have a laptop on board to do so.

Tom down at T&T has a ton of experience with the Holley systems, but I'm not sure that they're compatible with the wasted spark coil packs I already have.  I wanted to talk to him at lunch about it last Wednesday, but the day exploded, and I didn't get the face time.

 
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6599 on: January 08, 2018, 06:52:16 AM »

Say, uhh, midget,

Nice photos.    Looks like this "bastardization" might actually work.   Rather than the rubber plugs, which probably will react poorly with gasoline, maybe aluminum plugs with Viton o-rings?   Double check the linkage for operation in the correct direction.   It would be nice to reuse things like the throttle position sensor.


But uhh, I don't recognize the background in those shots as your garage workshop . . . . . . .

Or did you upgrade the digs in my absence?    rolleyes

Are Stewart and Eastwood your new laboratory assistants?

Inquiring minds . . . .  well, don't care actually!

 cheers
Felinelessboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
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