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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2204623 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6495 on: November 20, 2017, 08:59:04 AM »
Sawzall will fix the bonnet clearance as does with the transmission. But wouldn't say this too loudly about setting engine back. Someone might complain..... :|

Mornin', Jack.

I've combed the book pretty hard over the last 10 years, and if I missed where engine setback is an issue in GT, where engine swaps within the manufacturer's range are permitted, along with any transmission, provided stock layout is maintained, I've missed it. 

But I'm certainly not infallible.  If you think I'm missing it, please show me before I start getting things welded.  :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6496 on: November 20, 2017, 10:15:16 AM »
No rules covering setback in GT... just requires relationships to remain as stock. 
I would say you have no issue with position.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6497 on: November 20, 2017, 12:25:29 PM »
What's that orange stuff all over the place?
Past Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- Fifty-Seven Years of Leadership  Is Enough

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6498 on: November 20, 2017, 12:55:04 PM »
OK, I was just stirring up trouble and playing devils advocate. :roll:  :wink: As engine setback is only "allowed" in Altered and Comp coupe classes and GT (even with a swap) is basically a Production class, it might be argued. This is one of Dan Warner's favourite comments: "don't read into the rule book what isn't there." But, as has been suggested in this forum in the past, inspectors have been known to "interpret" the rules as something different than what is printed in the rule book. That being the case, a competitor complaining about your intended "setback" may cause some trouble. They probably would lose as Stainless has pointed out. But jes sayin....

Please disregard my original post on this, have at it. I am still very much looking forward to this project making power and a new record.  :cheers: :cheers:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 176.245  2018
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline jdincau

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6499 on: November 20, 2017, 02:07:48 PM »
What's that orange stuff all over the place?
I won't say a word
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6500 on: November 20, 2017, 03:08:10 PM »
What's that orange stuff all over the place?

Neglect . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline salt27

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6501 on: November 20, 2017, 11:23:51 PM »
What's that orange stuff all over the place?

Experience.    :cheers:

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6502 on: December 22, 2017, 07:15:20 PM »
Update:

Well, it's been awhile since anything was posted on this thread.    LOTS happening in the background though . . . . . . .  such as parts ordering/gathering/neutering/fitment . . . . . . . :roll:

Mostly, Chris has been preoccupied with work, leaving this update to the semi-retired . . . . . .

1/   The block has returned from its' foray to SoCal for mods.

2/   Chris has "neutered" the plexi adaptor into a reasonable mockup for co-mingling of the trans and engine and fitment of the assembly into the chassis.   A cheddarhead panic ensued when the crank, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, t/out bearing assembly was added to the trans.   The assembly would not bolt up and there was some panic about the rear hub of the crank being "incorrect" . . . .  

3/   Additionally, the cylinder head was interfering with the new adapter plate, causing further mental anguish in Sconnie Nation . . . . . . .

The dilemma:

Due to my inability to synchronize my schedule with Chris's time off, a trip up to Beerhaven to inspect the offending bits kept getting put off . . . . . . . much to Chris's mounting concern.   One of the things that can happen to your project, when your home shop has limited resources, is that everything can begin to seem overwhelming.

So, in a fit of good judgment, the Meister of Beerhaven gathered up all the bits, tossed it all into the back of the Ford, and we ended up @ T & T in Gurnee, this past Wednesday, 12/20.

The results:

A/   The small interference at the back of the cylinder head with the new adapter plate was cured in a 15 minute session on the Bridgeport.   No water was discovered and a nice, even workmanlike job was done.   Both cylinder heads were modified.

2/   We assembled all the bits and attempted a "transmission mating".   As previously mentioned, a complete engagement was a "no fitski" . . . . . . .   BUT, after some thorough checking of the crank hub height to adapter plate dimensions Vs the calculations and drawings, the Rodi manufactured crank was pronounced correct.    Some further inspection of the mechanisms revealed:  Saline contamination of the clutch slave cylinder, the darn thing was "stuck" at about halfway.    A disassembly and cleaning allowed the release fork and mechanism to retract to the proper position and VIOLA, Complete engagement for a successful mating.    Submissions for names of any potential offspring from the completed mating will be taken under consideration.   Only British influenced names will be considered . . . . . .    As it turns out, I can still add and design . . . . . :roll:    Now Chris can worry about the weight of the rear hub that was required to adapt the Rover to the BMC flywheel/clutch/transmission . . . . . . .

While we were at it, we checked the pilot bush depth in the crank, (A OK), and made a new pilot bushing for the assembly.

d/   The newly purchased manifold plates were offered up, of course, they need modifications to the bolt holes.    We left that for another day.

z/   We started looking at what will be necessary to fit a starter.    Put on hold until I can get some borrowed bits to offer up.   Chris's Tilton unit may need some serious mods.

aa/ We also started looking at a revised timing belt tension adjuster, I'm pushing for a Cosworth BD style eccentric mount, but we will need a belt to offer up first.

dd/ And an idea for an oil filter adapter block is germinating, Chris has supplied a suitable chunk of 6061-T6.

zz/ Bits disassembled for an accurate block deck height dimensional check, and guess what??    Block guy turns out to be an exceptional machinist who can follow directions and read dimensions.   Net result?   Dimensions and calculations from 2 years ago . . . . .  still work.

Going forward:

So, panic eliminated, progress made, much mental relief about high buck billet crankshaft thought to be wrong, but as it turns out is: correct!!   "I love it when a plan comes together!!" Col. H. Smith.

Block verified, pistons and con rods can now be ordered.

AND, we also neutered one of the stock composite inlet manifolds, since we had a sawsall and a bandsaw at our disposal.  You know, just for fun . . . . . . .

Sorry about no photos, I'll post some later.    I'm just counting on Chris to add his thoughts/insights/photos/etc.

So, one of the bottom lines is:  Either I'm EXTREMELY LUCKY, OR, I can still add.    My suspicion is the latter . . . . . . . but it's probably just the calculator . . . . . . .

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Festive Yule, or whatever trips your trigger this time of year.    I want Santa to bring me a heated driveway . . . . . . . .

Later dudes.
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Stillabletoaddboy
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:27:10 PM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6503 on: December 22, 2017, 09:55:02 PM »
Yeah - that 4-letter word - work.

While I'm happy in my new HR role, the last three months have been brutal.  Health insurance re-upping - no mean feat for a small company of less than 50 people in an environment where the insurance companies themselves have an unsettled footing - showing the door to a pair of co-workers - resourcing humans - some very fundamental and far-reaching changes in the operations - finishing up an Excel certification at the local community college.  It seemed every time I wanted to spend a Saturday in the garage, some family, friend or holiday function pulled the rug out from under it.

January's looking clearer, and I have some paid time off I'm being allowed to roll over to 2018, so I intend to extend a few weekends next month and put the Midget back on track.

To Fordboy's comments, I've never questioned his abilities with a slide rule, a calculator, or a Vernier caliper.  When the crank was being made, I did receive a call from Gregg questioning a hub dimension, but that's been almost 3 years ago, and I was doubting myself as to whether or not I had given him the correct information.

So when Mark pointed out to me that it was a stuck piston in the slave cylinder that was causing my consternation, I was relieved that I was simply an inexperienced idiot, rather than an absolute dolt.  Cold comfort, yes, but everything fits together, and an inexperienced idiot can gain experience, and, with time, disclaim the title of "idiot".

Thursday was great.  Almost everything that had been hanging out in the breeze was reeled in, and while a lot of it is still sitting in the laundry basket, it's one step closer to being folded and put back in the closet.

That clutch piston fiasco has actually been a bit of a blessing.  I'm switching out the old master cylinders - both brake and clutch - to an integrated early Bugeye Sprite unit, which houses both master cylinders in one casting.  I went to order up a new slave cylinder from Moss, and noted the earlier piece was a 7/8" bore, and the one I had was a 1" unit.  That got me to thinking, "what's the difference?"  Ahhh - I need to select a slave cylinder to suit the early master cylinder.

Had the old one not been goofed up, it's likely I would have been scratching my head next spring wondering why the clutch wouldn't disengage . . .

So I'm not a dolt . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6504 on: December 23, 2017, 06:01:53 AM »
Hey Buddy . . . . .



To Fordboy's comments, I've never questioned his abilities with a slide rule, a calculator, or a Vernier caliper.


I didn't intend for my soliloquy to infer such nonsense.   Unfortunately, self-doubt ALWAYS includes other members of the Doubt family, it's just the way human brains are wired.    And I know you well enough now to recognize that twinge of consternation in your voice.   Don't think I wasn't worried too, ANY human being can err.

The takeaway for readers with their own projects:

I have this annoying habit, I INSIST on taking notes, making sketches, or even, (GASP), full CAD drawings when the situation warrants it.   YES, it takes longer for checking and verification, BUT, written or other documentation can be referenced at a later date, thereby quelling those "moments of panic", caused by faulty human memory banks.   I have a cheap, wire bound, collegiate notebook for the Milwaukee Midget project, along with a file folder of other pertinent notes and sketches.   All in one place.    And that does not include all the files on my portable cauldron.

So the point is:   Keep good notes and records, AND keep your sanity . . . . . . .   ESPECIALLY, if your project is some morphodite mating ritual . . . . . .




So when Mark pointed out to me that it was a stuck piston in the slave cylinder that was causing my consternation, I was relieved that I was simply an inexperienced idiot, rather than an absolute dolt.  Cold comfort, yes, but everything fits together, and an inexperienced idiot can gain experience, and, with time, disclaim the title of "idiot".


Well, again, I don't quite remember it that way, but I don't know what you are thinking inside your head.

Again, the takeaway:

You need to check everything!!   NO exceptions!    Here, a "small" issue cost a lot of sleep.    And, as I am fond of pointing out, check the simple stuff too.    Although this does not apply to the midget, I'm tired of hearing from clients: "It can't be THAT!"    Really?  Just check it.  You might be surprised.




So I'm not a dolt . . .


Uhhmm, and I hesitate to point this out:

A/   YOU RACE A 1 LITER POWERED MG MIDGET IN AN OBSCURE FORM OF AMERICAN RACING . . . . .
2/   YOU RESIDE NEAR A "RIOT ZONE" IN A 2nd TIER US CITY . . . . . .
d/   YOUR RACING TRAVEL PLANS ALWAYS INCLUDE A CERTAIN CERAMIC GARDEN GNOME . . . . . .

I, ahh, well, I'm not a psychiatrist, BUT, I've seen one played on TV, and you, Sir, could benefit from watching some episodes of "Frasier" . . . . . . .

HOWEVER, since I'm helping you with this "delusion", I think I'm just gonna shut up now.    So's I don't get "caught up" in the same "Deer Net" . . . . . .

Venison for Christmas dinner?!?

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Itseemedlikeagoodideaatthetimeboy . . . . . .
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"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline jdincau

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6505 on: December 23, 2017, 07:56:19 AM »
As I always say
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6506 on: December 23, 2017, 09:09:53 AM »
 :cheers:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6507 on: December 23, 2017, 10:54:05 AM »
This is not the first time, and Fordboy is not the first person, who has advised me to watch re-runs of "Frasier".

But I misspelled it when I chose the color for the Midget, so now it's painted "Frazer" green.

Yup - details . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6508 on: December 24, 2017, 10:19:40 AM »
HAPPY HOLIDAZE!! TO ALL

From the flatlands below the cheddar curtain . . . . . .

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Eggnog only now . . .  :roll:
WouldbeSanta'shelperboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #6509 on: December 24, 2017, 11:44:03 AM »
...and a Merry Christmas from the Northern Sonora Desert.

Regards, Joline & Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ