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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1684248 times)
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6120 on: January 12, 2017, 02:20:55 PM »

midget,

Uhhhh, might you be persuaded to post something to your thread?

I mean, you know, IF IT'S NOT TOO MUCH TROUBLE!!!!

Sickandcrankyboy

Well, it's been an embarrassing weekend in the Pommy Pigmy Playhouse . . . but in the interest of full disclosure and to be filed under the adage - "Some people learn from other people's mistakes - the rest of us are the other people . . ."

I'm back on the Frankensprite - I absolutely have to get this thing ready to go. 

As you may recall . . .

After blowing out the ignition module and receiving a warranty replacement, and with Kate's help, I got the ignition properly dialed in tonight.  Got it to idle, and after it warmed up a tad, I gave it a stiff stab of the throttle - and Mount Vesuvius erupts.



Blew the hose right off the fitting.  I killed the ignition instantly - nothing's damaged but my ego - but now I need to tear the whole front end off again.





New hose, new fittings, and double checking flow through the filter . . .


Most oil filters flow with the center being the outlet.    Check your lines to make sure the flow is in the proper direction, if not, it is a simple fix.


. . . and making a "simple fix", I was able to fire up the little turd.

Despite my clean-up, though, the header wraps remained soaked in oil - and of course, 6 months later, I had forgotten that little fact.  We can discuss the merits of header wraps all day, but in a street car with close proximity headers and tight footwells, they're mandatory.

So the plumbing is done, the car fires right up, and within a minute, the entire garage is filled with oil smoke.  I shut it down, and come back to it on Sunday.

I'm looking at the car, and in order to remove the header, I will need to drain the block, remove the radiator, disconnect the exhaust, pull the engine. 

So I come up with what I think is a great plan to get the oil out of the webbing - saturate it with solvent.

Now I came up with this idea BEFORE I started using the solvent.  Brake cleaner seemed my most logical choice. 

There are two varieties, flammable and non-flammable.  Okay, logic would dictate non-flammable - after all, I'm using it on exhaust, the price is the same - ON SALE AT BLAIN'S FARM AND FLEET FOR $1.99.  $13.93 later, I'm heading home with 7 cans.

The other difference is the non-flammable product is chlorinated - the non-chlorinated product is flammable.

BUT -

When you're working in a garage with a kerosene space heater blowing, and vapors from chlorinated brake fluid are heated, things start to smell like a swimming pool.

I opened the door and cleared it out, and wound up with nothing more than a headache, but after reading a few message boards, it occurred to me that, despite my best intentions to not burn the garage to the foundation, I was NOT doing this the safe way.

Fortunately, the brake fluid removed quite a bit of the oil, and the last few evenings, I've spent a few 5 minute sittings in the garage with the engine on, the door open, and have slowly smoked off most of the remaining oil in the wrap.

I have a friend in Illinois who, from time to time, reminds me to "Stop Doing Stupid $#IT".

But sometimes, I have difficulty distinguish clever from stupid . . .  rolleyes


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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6121 on: January 12, 2017, 04:09:13 PM »

Be Extremely Careful When Using Brake Cleaner!
Careful with brake cleaner!Safety Alert by Brew Dude (www.brewracingframes.com). First published in American Iron Magazine 8-09. Used with permission of Mr. Dude, who says "pass it on!"

The following article outlines some very serious repercussions that can arise from less than prudent use of brake cleaner. Normally a very effective degreaser, it can turn deadly when heated. Read on!

Yep, I thought I was a goner this time! How simple it was to get in trouble. After seeing and reading so many warning labels, we tend to no longer pay the many heed. We buy chemicals and sprays at a local parts house and think "How can this be so bad, healthy-wise, if I'm buying it over the counter?" Here's how a small whiff of smoke almost dropped me where I stood. I had a rush job to do welding four diesel tanks. I had to patch where they were pitted by road salt corrosion. Normally, I spray a little carb cleaner on the spot I'm going to weld, wipe it off , and then preheat the area with an acetylene torch to get rid of any solvents. Where I normally get carb cleaner was sold out, so I got a can of brake cleaner and went through my regular routine. To be on the safe side, I even had the shop door open and the exhaust fan on. I started TIG-welding on Thursday afternoon and had no problem at first. When I started welding across a really pitted area I found a couple of drops of cleaner that were lurking in a deep dimple. As I came close to the cleaner, a small puff of white smoke popped up, and I almost passed out. I made it outside and sat for awhile in the fresh air. After about 10 minutes, I went to the office and sat at the computer to check the warnings on the brake cleaner can I used. That's when my whole left side started shaking for about 10-15 minutes. (I found out later I was having a seizure.) When I was able to control myself again, I read the can's warning: "Vapors may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gases such as hydrogen chloride and possible phosgene." After reading about hydrogen chloride, I started researching phosgene. The active chemical in the brake cleaner is tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed to excessive heat and the gas argon, which is used in MIG and TIG welding, it produces phosgene. Phosgene gas can be fatal with a dose as little as four parts per million: basically a single small puff of smoke. Symptoms can be delayed from six to 48 hours after exposure.

There is no antidote for phosgene poisoning. If you do survive, the long-term effects can be chronic bronchitis and emphysema. My breathing still was hard a few hours later, but I felt a little better, so I didn't go to a hospital. The chlorine taste and smell in my nose and mouth were still strong. About midnight, I started coughing and my chest started hurting, but I thought that this would pass after a night's sleep. The next day (Friday), the symptoms got worse and my kidneys started hurting, so I drank a bunch of liquids and cranberry juice. For the next four days, I was constipated and only urinated a lot of clear fluid with no smell. Though sometimes I felt okay, I was really in a lot of pain on and off for the next several days, as well as weak and tired. By the next Monday, nine days after poisoning, I lost all balance. I was confused and could hardly talk, so I finally went to the emergency room. My symptoms were low oxygen level, sugar levels out of control, vertigo, and I was hurting badly in my entire chest. I was admitted and put into ICU. My kidneys had probably shut down for those first four days. My lungs were damaged, so I had to be on oxygen. I had to on insulin to keep my sugar in check. Since there is no antidote for phosgene, all I could do was try to rest and hope I got better. After CT, MRI, EKG, and EEG tests, as well as several blood tests it looked like, at least for now, there is no permanent damage. However, the MRI showed fluid in my sinuses and a buildup of fluids near my brain. The phosgene scarred my sinuses, which then became infected. The three doctors I saw said I was really lucky to make it. After four weeks, it appears that I may have emphysema and chronic bronchitis. I'm on nasal medicine and an inhaler. My sinuses are severely scarred and my smell nerves are damaged. I still have that awful chlorine taste and smell. I may also have pancreas damage. The insulin that I was taking had little effect on my sugar levels, so I'm now on some stronger medicines. So why am I telling you all this? I hope to save someone from an easily avoidable severe illness or even death. The cleaning sprays commonly found in thousands of bike shops across the country can be just as dangerous if improperly used. Read the labels and warnings! Look up the chemicals you use. Just because you got away with it before, doesn't mean you won't get in trouble the next time.
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6122 on: January 12, 2017, 09:30:28 PM »

jpm, THANK YOU FOR THAT POST.  I'm realizing now that I came a lot closer to a serious health threatening condition than anybody with reasonable intelligence should allow. 

I've suffered no more than a headache, and wound up catching the problem before it became major.

This particular thread on this forum draws an inordinate amount of attention for what we're actually doing.

If my experience and your post helps prevent somebody else from serious injury, then the countless BS posts regarding beer, Bears, Packers, Cubs, Hawkeyes and Britcrap will have been worth it.

Thanks!

Chris
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6123 on: January 13, 2017, 11:52:46 AM »

jpm, THANK YOU FOR THAT POST.  I'm realizing now that I came a lot closer to a serious health threatening condition than anybody with reasonable intelligence should allow.  

I've suffered no more than a headache, and wound up catching the problem before it became major.

This particular thread on this forum draws an inordinate amount of attention for what we're actually doing.

If my experience and your post helps prevent somebody else from serious injury, then the countless BS posts regarding beer, Bears, Packers, Cubs, Hawkeyes and Britcrap will have been worth it.

Thanks!

Chris

x2!!!!!!



Chris,

Glad to hear you got away with just a headache!!     I can't afford to lose any more drinkin' buddies, especially Sconnie Nation ones . . . . . .

Everyone I know has a "brush with brakleen" story, or knows someone who does.    I won't go so far as to thank Monsanto or DuPont, but the fact remains that we survive in a "chemical age", where survival is contingent on being wary, and careful.     The best advice seems to always come back to:

When in doubt, don't . . . . . .

I guess everybody should listen to the voice in the back of their heads!!



 cheers cheers cheers
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:40:15 PM by fordboy628 » Logged

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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6124 on: January 13, 2017, 07:44:52 PM »

Just heard from Steve in California - should be starting on the sleeves for the K next week.

 cheers
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6125 on: January 22, 2017, 07:34:12 AM »

CAMSHAFTED!!!

midget,

As you know, shortly after you dropped off the stock Rover cams from your original engine, I set them up on my Cam Analyst test stand to run the profiles and capture the data.   The reason for doing this was to definitively determine whether those cams could be reground into useable cams for the race engine.



This is a photo of the setup.




Closeup photo of the lobe shape.




Screen shot of the lobe file.




The answer is definitively:    YES   and   NO . . . . . . . .

YES

Well, anything can be accomplished if you want to throw enough money at it . . . . . . . .


NO

The problem is that the stock cams have very little duration at either mid-lift or at high lift.    They are very similar to 2 valve Jag grinds and 2 valve Lotus T/C grinds.    So to get adequate racing duration in these cores, the choices are:

A/   Regrind the cores with a dramatically reduced base circle diameter.    This WILL reduce the nose radius, possibly (probably) to the point where cam nose/tappet loads are extreme.   This also requires longer valve stems and/or super thick adjusting shims.

2/   Depending on the grind selected, but usually, Jag & Lotus stock cam cores need to be WELDED (as in EXPENSIVE) on every lobe to have adequate material for the regrind.    This is a pricey process that is best reserved for reclaiming cams with a damaged lobe or 2.    Not all 8 lobes per cam x 2 . . . . . .     But as I said, it could be done.


As I suggested previously, the better choice is new cams, outright, properly ground to the profile required, with a base circle of proper dimensions.    Adding a "Cam Kit" to this choice seems to make the most sense, both from an engineering and economic view.

Back to the Piper Cams Catalog . . . . . . .

 cheers
Camboy
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 07:37:48 AM by fordboy628 » Logged

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« Reply #6126 on: January 22, 2017, 11:26:25 AM »

Pointy lobes, aren't they?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #6127 on: January 22, 2017, 11:38:43 AM »

Pointy lobes, aren't they?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Yep.    And that's the problem . . . . . .   Well, it's a problem at a reasonable cost for regrinding.

Hardface welding of all 8 lobes per cam is going to be more expensive than new cores or billets.

 cheers
Camboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

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« Reply #6128 on: January 22, 2017, 02:44:31 PM »

Does the rover engine utilize a bucket style lifter or a roller?
What is diameter of bucket?

On cummins and other diesel race cams, they are very pointy nosed, but utilize a 1.25 inch or larger lifter face. That in itsself transitions into similar lift and duration of large square nosed cams utilized in roller follower type applications.
Can you analyze actual valve lift and duration of a partially assembled head?
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« Reply #6129 on: January 22, 2017, 03:48:45 PM »

I want to say it's a 34 mm bucket - well sized.  Kibblewhite makes one that will work, but it might make more sense to order a valve kit "in toto" from Britain.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on new cams.  I've got new Piper adjustable cam sprockets already, I'm just trying to determine which grind to go with.

Even with the Rover head in stock form, we're getting more flow at .250 than we got at .450 on the Grenade.  If we do nothing with the head, I'm thinking either one of these might be a good choice - and keeping in mind that these applications are intended for the 1.8 - both are Piper grinds -


ARKBP285M   

Int -                     Exh -

276   0.440″          276 0.438″   

34‑62                 64‑32               

104                       106


ARKBP300M

Int -                       Exh -
                                          
                                          
280    0.442          280 0.440″      

34-66                   70-30

104                       106   

Mark is going to do some limited prep on the ports - if we could anticipate what to expect from that work, I'd order right now.  But I'd like to see what the flow curve on the modified head looks like before I load up the MasterCard.

That said, I'm kinda pancaking to get this thing back on the front burner.  Even with the shorter of the two cam choices, I'm certain we'll be able to make a lot more power than with the Grenade - and likely with an engine that isn't quite as stressed or peaky.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6130 on: January 22, 2017, 04:56:05 PM »

midget,

Scheduling some EA Pro sim time on the portable cauldron.    The head flow files are already uploaded.

Now that I have a cam starting profile, I can sub in some Lotus or Jag or Cosworth grinds similar to the Piper selections.

Wow, this is cool!!    Just like a Professional race team . . . . . . . . . .

 Dead Horse    Dead Horse


Unlike a Professional race team, I think we're going to need some Wychwood Hobgoblin or such to finish these calculations . . . . .
 cheers cheers cheers
MyrddinEmrysboy
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« Reply #6131 on: January 22, 2017, 05:20:26 PM »

Hey, Mark -

Judging by the timing of our posts this Sunday afternoon, and that Atlanta is leading Green Bay a quintabazillion to 7, neither of us is paying attention to football today?
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6132 on: January 22, 2017, 06:12:13 PM »

Chris,

Ahhhh, well no, I've got it on.

But with Rodgers & Co giving a demo in high pressure "choke" games, I'm starting to feel a little sorry for them.    rolleyes

BUT, I am REALLY TIRED of listening to that ex-Cowboy twit Aikman, attempt to wax eloquent about the number of Green Bay players injured over the year, 15 in total.   The most in the NFL according to Cowboy twit.    BUT,  the Bears had 22 season ending injuries this year, so no chance to be even a decent team, let alone make the Playoffs.     Aikman, get your facts straight.    Kellyanne Conway could replace you today.    It's a shame because he is usually an insightful analyst . . . . . . . .

I've been impressed by the Packers performance, up until now, given the circumstances.      The problem is, lack of playing talent kills you in the playoffs, especially against teams that are whole.   They went in as 5.5 point underdogs, I don't think they are going to cover with 6:57 left in the 4th quarter.

 Dead Horse Dead Horse Dead Horse

Like the late, great Doug Buffone always said:   "It starts with the horses up front."

Cie la vie . . . . .
Mark
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« Reply #6133 on: January 22, 2017, 07:46:19 PM »

Pointy lobes, aren't they?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

I'm reminded of Bettie Page . . .







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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6134 on: January 22, 2017, 07:50:19 PM »

Now that you mention it, Chris....  evil

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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