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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1505271 times)
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fordboy628
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GONE FISHIN' . . .




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« Reply #6045 on: August 27, 2016, 07:08:49 AM »

midget,

Hope the rain misses the Concours.

Sorry I couldn't make it up.    Still have the crowler of "Neighborly Dispute".

 cheers
Fordboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

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« Reply #6046 on: August 28, 2016, 05:00:04 PM »

Mark,

Are you guys looking to pull a lot of crankcase vacuum and run real thin rings?

You guys should have some seriously stable bores in this thing.

There is a good thread on Yellowbullet where Chris Uratchko built a R0X engine with  4.130 bore peaking at 9200rpm. 6 stage Dailey pump and pulling 25inHg.

.6mm x .7mm x 3mm ring pack.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 05:08:40 PM by hoffman900 » Logged
fordboy628
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« Reply #6047 on: August 29, 2016, 01:49:42 PM »

Mark,

Are you guys looking to pull a lot of crankcase vacuum and run real thin rings?    YES.  At this stage, Chris still wants to try to run wet sump.    I'm trying to convince him to run dry sump.

You guys should have some seriously stable bores in this thing.   Well, that's the plan anyway.  A lot is going to depend on how stable the case assembly (re: block) turns out to be.

There is a good thread on Yellowbullet where Chris Uratchko built a R0X engine with  4.130 bore peaking at 9200rpm. 6 stage Dailey pump and pulling 25inHg.

.6mm x .7mm x 3mm ring pack.   Yeah, I've seen the thread.   It is a "NASCAR" style setup, with which I am VERY familiar . . . . . .

Bob,

What have you been up to?

 cheers
Mark
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #6048 on: August 29, 2016, 06:54:47 PM »

If you run a wet sump and pull a very high case vacuum you are asking for bearing failure from having the oil pump cavitate from insufficient inlet pressure. Remember that the only thing that makes oil go into the pump is the vacuum made by the pump, the height of the oil above the pump inlet and the case pressure. If you draw a case vacuum of -25 in Hg then there will no pressure available to force the oil into the pump and it will cavitate! If you want case vacuum then you MUST use a dry sump system. I know that the drag racers get away with it but they only load the engine for a few seconds not minutes, and they still have bearing problems.

Rex
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jacksoni
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« Reply #6049 on: August 29, 2016, 07:13:58 PM »

I agree with Rex. It is my understanding that there are diminishing returns above perhaps 15". 8-12 is good. At Bonneville, 25" hg vacuum would be outer space levels and I will opine is not possible, let alone desirable. This is not the place where "some is good, more is better and too much is just right!" Either separate vacuum pump or dry sump is needed.
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Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 169.741  2009
 G/GMS-178.835 2010
Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #6050 on: August 29, 2016, 07:57:10 PM »

Realistically, if this were a cup motor and I needed every possible advantage, I'd be looking at a dry sump system.  But at the end of the day, what this thing needs to do is make possibly a couple of dozen passes at Bonneville and/or Gairdner reliably.

In Britain, race prepared MG/Rover K engines in 1.4 liter configurations under boost make in excess of 280 hp running the stock oil pump, and do so in road racing conditions that slop oil from one end of the oil pan the other.  With the advantage of a shorter stroke with less windage than the longer stroke engine, along with a fairly deep sump, I'm thinking we should be fine as far as oiling is concerned.

While I recognize the advantages of a negative pressure in the block to produce horsepower, we took the record with 99.1 out of a tractor motor.  Mark's convinced we can make ~125 with a high degree of reliability.  I'm willing to put up with a little blow-by.

While the A-series 5-port was pushed to the limit, the K, with 16 valves, dohc and 5 main bearings, provided I'm careful and smart when bolting it together, SHOULD be able to comfortably put out the kind of power we're looking for without having to get too tricked out.

I'm not looking to build the ultimate K series - just an optimal version designed for the task at hand.

I'll leave building the ultimate 1 liter motors to the Project '64 team and Stainless - which is my way of saying, "Congratulations, team Boxcar"!  cheers
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
Elmo Rodge
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« Reply #6051 on: August 29, 2016, 08:18:40 PM »

I have nothing to add but, since this is page 404 of this mess I couldn't help myself.  rolleyes Wayno
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« Reply #6052 on: August 29, 2016, 09:13:11 PM »

Mark,

Are you guys looking to pull a lot of crankcase vacuum and run real thin rings?    YES.  At this stage, Chris still wants to try to run wet sump.    I'm trying to convince him to run dry sump.

You guys should have some seriously stable bores in this thing.   Well, that's the plan anyway.  A lot is going to depend on how stable the case assembly (re: block) turns out to be.

There is a good thread on Yellowbullet where Chris Uratchko built a R0X engine with  4.130 bore peaking at 9200rpm. 6 stage Dailey pump and pulling 25inHg.

.6mm x .7mm x 3mm ring pack.   Yeah, I've seen the thread.   It is a "NASCAR" style setup, with which I am VERY familiar . . . . . .

Bob,

What have you been up to?

 cheers
Mark

Left the private sector to the public sector - took a pay cut and now I work more hours than I did before with all my in-state traveling!, GF is in grad school - helping her out some with living expenses, taking night courses... burning money just like everyone else, just not on motorcycles or cars.  Dead Horse cheers

Looking forwarded to this project picking up some steam!
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4-barrel Mike
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« Reply #6053 on: September 01, 2016, 09:33:31 AM »

Just for fun: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Thames-Formula-1-Race-Car-Hauler-/222235870008?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33be4a4338:g:lwkAAOSwdzVXnPD2&item=222235870008

Mike


* Thames.jpg (291.33 KB, 1600x903 - viewed 117 times.)
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Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!
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« Reply #6054 on: September 01, 2016, 10:03:57 AM »

Chris, there you have it, forget renting a Mustang convertible when you can own a real British race car hauler!

New plan, fly to Washington, take delivery of Thames, drive down I-5, stay with us, we have whale watching, wine tasting, brewery's and enough old sh1t laying around to look at that you'll think you're at a museum.

And if that aint enough, World of Speed is only 740 miles from here.   

Looking forward to seeing you two, Don
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« Reply #6055 on: September 01, 2016, 12:05:22 PM »

Don, Mike - Please don't do this to me.

Kate has been so nice - so sweet - and as much as I obviously should be in possession of a 60 hp stubnose Thames 800 flatbed with a racing pedigree - I simply can't justify making it my living quarters until I'm forced to appear before the magistrate.

And at this point, if that were to appear in the backyard, she'd have legal grounds to bring suit.

. . . wait a minute . . .

Is this some sort of subterfuge to separate us and steal her from me?  undecided
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #6056 on: September 01, 2016, 12:11:08 PM »

Don't worry, Chris, Don is height challenged and is simply in awe of such folks as you and Kate and me.  Anybody that's taller than about 5'4" is kinda threatening to him, yanno.  Just talk nice and he'll settle down and go back to the rear of his cage. smiley
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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4-barrel Mike
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« Reply #6057 on: September 01, 2016, 12:36:47 PM »

Imagine that Thames with an aluminum V8  afro

Mike
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« Reply #6058 on: September 01, 2016, 03:55:41 PM »

Imagine that Thames with an aluminum V8  afro

Mike

. . . rolling into Salt Lake City from the east, the Midget on the bed, smoke rolling out from where the brakes used to be . . .

I still need to get the Bugeye on the road, guys!
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #6059 on: September 01, 2016, 04:01:03 PM »

If you take the I84 split off from I80 and go through Ogden it is a much nicer ride and shallower grade and only a few miles longer. No brake smoke. Can't use that as an excuse.  cheers
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Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 169.741  2009
 G/GMS-178.835 2010
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