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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 1541740 times)
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wisdonm
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« Reply #5970 on: July 21, 2016, 09:34:01 AM »

Hard to find. I've only been in an O'Reilly's once, and didn't notice them.

I used the filter, still have the decal.
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« Reply #5971 on: July 21, 2016, 04:49:32 PM »

Chris,
Found this video of the Midget at Bville 2013




Nick
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« Reply #5972 on: July 21, 2016, 08:19:44 PM »

Ahhh - the long-lost video - Thanks, Nick!

Don, I know that Mel up at C&S stocks the Wix racing filters, and they've got the PH8A equivalent there.

Upon examination, I'm going to take the full blame on this failure for two reasons.

A - I cheaped out on the fittings - should have used a name brand - and I know better than this, but was getting penny-wise and pound-foolish.

B - I remember putting the hoses together and kinda sensing that when I was tightening them up to the hose, something didn't feel the same as when I was cinching up the Aeroquip fittings for the Midget.  It was one of those moments when you go, "Hmmm . . . well it is a different brand, it's not a race piece, but it'll be fine for a street car".

So that $30.00 I saved, divided by the time it's going to take to rip the front end apart, clean up and fix this mess, brings my hourly wage for this project to about $2.25 an hour, which is about what I was making at Hardees when I was in High School, and leaves my shoes and clothes equally covered in grease and oil.

Plus I've got to fork over for new fittings and oil lines.

The hellofitall is that I know better - I just forget to remember.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

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« Reply #5973 on: July 22, 2016, 06:23:26 AM »

Thank you for "manning-up" and telling us so that we all have a chance to learn from your misfortune. grin

Now that I've said that bit and tried to make you fell better -- Hay, Doofus!!  You shoulda knowed better!!!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 06:25:02 AM by Seldom Seen Slim » Logged

Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #5974 on: July 22, 2016, 08:16:06 AM »

Ahhh - the long-lost video - Thanks, Nick!

Don, I know that Mel up at C&S stocks the Wix racing filters, and they've got the PH8A equivalent there.

Upon examination, I'm going to take the full blame on this failure for two reasons.

A - I cheaped out on the fittings - should have used a name brand - and I know better than this, but was getting penny-wise and pound-foolish.

B - I remember putting the hoses together and kinda sensing that when I was tightening them up to the hose, something didn't feel the same as when I was cinching up the Aeroquip fittings for the Midget.  It was one of those moments when you go, "Hmmm . . . well it is a different brand, it's not a race piece, but it'll be fine for a street car".


Chris:

A few years back I had a line of fittings that I offered on my website. I met the company owner at PRI and the quality "seemed" good. I made a modest order of a few hundred fittings. By the way, the markup on fittings is about 300%. I decided before I sold them I should do some test. I decided to re-plumb the 2100. What I found was about 25% of the fittings bubbled in a pressure test. Not at the hose connections but at the seal on the swivel connection, an o-ring and a wire pin that is pressed in to make and seal the swivel connection. When I called the company owner he said he was surprised and it my be my installation technique. That did not make sense because the leaks were coming from the part I did not assemble. I put them up on the website for a few months but only sold a  hand full. As time when on I found that the fittings that I used that did not initially leak would leak after sitting for a  few months. I would ask questions on the forums about fittings, manufacturer and pricing. The comment that stuck in my mind, and may have come from a LR forum member, I can't remember, was " I am not putting a Chinese fitting on my $30,000 engine!" Now I don't have a $30k motor but my motor cost a lot of money for me. A few days later I boxed up all of my Chinese fittings and sold them on ebay, with full disclosure for a little over $300 for about $3,000 in wholesale fittings. Here is what I learned for my $2,700:
 
Go with a name brand manufacturer, there is no substitute for quality AN fittings and hose.
Do not mix fittings and hoses from different manufacturers. When you measure the different brands precisely you will notice variations in sizes that may cause the hose to blow off the fitting under pressure and heat cycles.
Invest in a set of AN pressure test fittings, one plug and one air fitting, Speedway Motors has a 3AN to 12AN set for about $50. Pressure test every hose in a bucket of water. It will save you a ton of grief and clean up.
Buy a good set of AN assemble wrenches, there are two AN sizes for each hose, the AN# for the fitting and the AN for the hose end, usually it is a little larger.  The AN crescent wrench will work but if you crank down on the fitting the crescent's jaws can spread and slip
Go ahead and spend the $14 for the aluminum vice jaws they will make assembly easier and more reliable.
Air gap between the AN swivel and hose and should be about 1/16th on most hose ends
I found water is a good hose lube but white  lithium grease will help keep the fittings from gualing on assembly
Invest in a good AN Hose Cutter, Speedway Motors has one for around $30...  best money I ever spent for AN hoses

This information may be remedial for most on this forum but it may help someone learn from my mistakes.

That's my 2 cents.

BR


So that $30.00 I saved, divided by the time it's going to take to rip the front end apart, clean up and fix this mess, brings my hourly wage for this project to about $2.25 an hour, which is about what I was making at Hardees when I was in High School, and leaves my shoes and clothes equally covered in grease and oil.

Plus I've got to fork over for new fittings and oil lines.

The hellofitall is that I know better - I just forget to remember.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #5975 on: July 22, 2016, 09:59:00 AM »

Thanks for the tutorial, Bill.  I betcha that more than a few racers will learn something from reading it. grin
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #5976 on: July 22, 2016, 12:09:00 PM »

Thank you for "manning-up" and telling us so that we all have a chance to learn from your misfortune. grin

Some people can grow mustaches on their faces, whereas I seem to cultivate omelets.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #5977 on: July 23, 2016, 05:50:48 AM »

Pom Rod issue.

Yeeessshhh . . . what a mess.

Okay, better in the garage than on the street.

After blowing out the ignition module and receiving a warranty replacement, and with Kate's help, I got the ignition properly dialed in tonight.  Got it to idle, and after it warmed up a tad, I gave it a stiff stab of the throttle - and Mount Vesuvius erupts.



Blew the hose right off the fitting.  I killed the ignition instantly - nothing's damaged but my ego - but now I need to tear the whole front end off again.

This is going to go on the back burner for the time being.  Mark's pushing on the K, I concur, and this will simply have to wait.

Until then, I'll contact the public works department in Herculaneum and see what waste reclamation permits I need to clean up the mess . . .




As has been pointed out, and confessed, the most common cause for hose/fitting failure is improper assembly or a mismatch between the manufacturers of the hose and hose end.

BUT, since the filter is the ubiquitous Fram PH8, unloved by many engine builders, I offer one other possibility.    The PH8, as well as many other "high performance" filters, contains an integrated "anti-drain back" valve.    This is nothing more than a rubber "flapper" on the inlet portion of the filter.    AND, if the flow through the filter is mistakenly reversed, say by reversing the line connections, the anti-drainback flapper becomes an anti-flow flapper, sealed by the oil pressure generated.   This can raise the oil pressure to the point of hose/fitting failure.    The tipoff is that oil pressure can be difficult or impossible to obtain on the oil pressure gauge.

Most oil filters flow with the center being the outlet.    Check your lines to make sure the flow is in the proper direction, if not, it is a simple fix.

I'm near the end of my Lotus Twin Cam airflow development arc, might accomplish something on the K head next week.

TTFN
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« Reply #5978 on: July 23, 2016, 08:32:14 AM »

RCA Receiving Tube Manual . . .

. . . "always check polarity" . . .

Good thought, Mark.  But we're good on flow direction.

I am thinking when I redo this to give a bit more relief to the fittings through longer hose lengths.

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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #5979 on: July 23, 2016, 08:47:56 AM »

Mark's comment is exactly what I was thinking.
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« Reply #5980 on: July 23, 2016, 11:17:55 AM »

Don't feel bad Chris, the first time I cranked my engine I forgot that I hadn't put on an oil filter and I cranked about half a quart of oil on the shop floor. Yes, Kitty Litter works just fine for cleaning up dopey things like that.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #5981 on: July 24, 2016, 10:56:31 PM »

Well, the kitty litter is still doing its job, and in light of a couple 105 degree heat index days, one of which I had to work an outdoor wedding in a suit with a dew point of 68 degrees and no breeze, I elected to head to the basement today. 

Decided to drop the crank into the K to mock things up a bit.

Fits and turns with old bearings, and we'll need to get the cylinder liners in place before we do any alinement honing, but Rody seems to have nailed it again -



The flange extends a ways from the back of the block, but we'll be running a 1/2" adapter plate to the transmission.

The racing 1275 flywheel fits nicely -



While the offer-up plate hasn't been bored for the flange - we may need to make adjustments to lay-over and need to retain our center axis - slipping the transmission up to the back of the block starts to put together a visual as to how it's going to look.

 



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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #5982 on: July 24, 2016, 11:36:32 PM »

Well, the kitty litter is still doing its job, and in light of a couple 105 degree heat index days, one of which I had to work an outdoor wedding in a suit with a dew point of 68 degrees and no breeze, I elected to head to the basement today. 

Decided to drop the crank into the K to mock things up a bit.

Fits and turns with old bearings, and we'll need to get the cylinder liners in place before we do any alinement honing, but Rody seems to have nailed it again -



The flange extends a ways from the back of the block, but we'll be running a 1/2" adapter plate to the transmission.

The racing 1275 flywheel fits nicely -



While the offer-up plate hasn't been bored for the flange - we may need to make adjustments to lay-over and need to retain our center axis - slipping the transmission up to the back of the block starts to put together a visual as to how it's going to look.

 


"I love it when a plan comes together."

 cheers
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« Reply #5983 on: July 25, 2016, 10:46:18 AM »

Chris;

Good grief- the transmission is as big as the block!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #5984 on: July 25, 2016, 04:16:38 PM »

Chris, me thinks you could hide a Wankel in that bell housing!  shocked They just go mmmmmmmm so who would know?  evil
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