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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2010427 times)

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5925 on: July 09, 2016, 09:27:57 AM »
"Maybe they also use 'rat' pistons from Hamlin . . . . . ."

Arrrggghhh.....................

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ 


Heeeyyy,   sorry . . . . . .

Not everybody can be floydjer . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

gkabbt

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5926 on: July 10, 2016, 05:29:44 AM »

Mark, Don't know if you saw my pics from ECTA back in April but Gary and Caitlin had their Insight at that meet.













And this is their run results:

Pos.   Class    #            Driver          Model, Color   Best Speed    Run 1      Run 2

1       I/GT     4555A  Caitlin Gray    Blue                103.4007      94.2211  103.4007                     
2       I/GT     4555    Gary Gray      Blue                101.7409      96.878    101.7409

I cannot swear to it but I "think" they were on gasoline only.

HTH,
Gregg
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 05:36:13 AM by gkabbt »

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5927 on: July 10, 2016, 05:42:39 AM »
It may not work for other cars but my personal experience has been 12-15mph difference Maxton/Wilmington to Bonneville.
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
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 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline RidgeRunner

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5928 on: July 10, 2016, 06:52:55 AM »
     A gentleman who had a lifetime of motorsport involvement once told me that as a rough rule of thumb he figured Maxton speeds for most classes to be about 80% of what could be expected at Bonneville.

             Ed


Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5929 on: July 10, 2016, 08:17:01 AM »
Hmmmmm, 20% of 160 make about 30 mph. I'd be pretth happy with that needlesss to say. Going to run out of gear though. 10500 here I come. :)
Jack Iliff
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5930 on: July 10, 2016, 11:28:50 AM »
It's a brilliant choice for the class - best aerodynamics of any two-seater in a 1-liter category.  If the car was still pulling at the end of the mile, it's a likely contender I wouldn't bet against.  Between Wilmington and the Texas Mile, I suspect Gary's never had a real opportunity to top it out.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5931 on: July 10, 2016, 04:37:05 PM »
I think an Insight ran at Maxton, G/BGT class went 160.2 and then in G/GSS went 177. I saw one at Bonneville but not sure how it did- and let to a lot of discussion on landracing.com about whether a Honda Motorcycle engine into an Insight was a legal swap in GT. Part lead by a nephew of mine who went so far as to buy a pretty trashed Insight before getting the question fully answered (no) and without the skills and for sure the money to build it. OH Well.  Anyway you have probably seen the video of the Hasport Insight (and I think that is the one from Bonneville we saw) that unfortunately crashed at El Mirage and made the national news. Little short wheelbase cars going fast can get scary. I don't remember what they figured as the cause of the crash.

Is the Shazam car the one that was back behind the Stateline in 2014?  We looked at and chatted some with him then but I don't remember.
Jack Iliff
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 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline ShazamRacing

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5932 on: July 10, 2016, 08:32:33 PM »
Hey all,

Thanks for the interest in Shazam.  Nice to see the pics on this forum!  We ran in two classes at the first Wilmington meet this year.  I/GT (with my daughter setting the record at 103.4) and in I/FMS on E85 only, where I ran 106.6 before the rain/accident shut things down on Saturday.  With the uncertainty in the weather, we decided 5 runs was enough to say we had done our testing, and we packed up and headed home.  Both Caitlin and I plan to drive at Bonneville.  We will be running in the gas class this year.  Depending on how things go, I anticipate trying fuel next year.  Chris is right in that we have never really been able to see top speed in these 1 mile 'drag' races, so we hope against hope that we can finally get to run at Bonneville and see what she can do.  Our HP curve maxes at 7200 on the dyno, and we are typically at 56-5700 in the mile and still pulling.   

I did enter Shazam at Bonneville in 2014 and spent the entire time in the Nugget parking lot.  We did get an inspection and bail-out test completed, however.  I was bummed not to have thought about leaving my car there and running later like Chris did, and I was crushed (but happy for him) that the old record was broken.  Glad that it wasn't upped by too much, however. 

We are running with the original 3-cylinder gas motor, no hybrid assist.  That was the only way I could find to get control of the ECU (aftermarket).  15:1 diamond pistons, Hyabusa ITB's, custom exhaust. Not much improvement over stock, however.....

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5933 on: July 10, 2016, 10:25:32 PM »
Hi Gary,

Thanks for posting up your plans and congrats on your record @ Wilmington.

If you are pulling 5700 in the mile, and can pull up to your peak power rpm, that is 5700/7200 or a 20.8% rpm increase.    Don't forget that velocity is a function of the cube of bhp available, and as a result, extra power is gobbled up at a furious rate.    In 2013, once Chris hit the dip in the Grenade's power curve, that was all she wrote . . . . . .

A better model would be based on bhp @ 5700/bhp @ 7200, and then that should be factored at the rate of the cube root.    Perhaps the square root if you want to optimistic.

If you have an ~21% increase in bhp from 5700 to 7200, you should be able to put up competitive speeds, or better.    I wish Chris was going to be ready this year, it would be cool to check out your ride and have another competitor in the class.

Best of luck to you and Caitlin.

 :cheers:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline ShazamRacing

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5934 on: July 11, 2016, 09:12:21 AM »
Thanks Fordboy,

My engine puts out about 58 hp at the wheels at 5700, and 67-70 hp at 7200, depending on air density, etc.  That's right at 20%.  Maybe I have a chance.  The torque curve is amazingly flat from 5500 - 7200.  I have engine problems at the moment, however.  She smoked badly last time I started her, and I found aluminum filings in the oil!  Will be tearing into the motor this week to see what's up.  I have a spare, and will see what I can cobble together.  At worst, we will go back with a stock motor (Still 1.3 hp/c.i.!) with better valve springs.  Valve float limited the top end when we ran the stock motor before.  I was running 15" wheels and tires at Wilmington.  I've since changed back to the original 14's, and have added lowering springs.  This has taken 3"+ off ride height, which will hopefully help cheat the wind a bit more.  I had hoped the larger tires would help with top end speed (they still may at b'ville), but the car seems to like the 14's better in the mile. 

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5935 on: July 11, 2016, 09:37:08 AM »
I gotta say something here.  It's about the spirit that stays alive in land speed racing.

Where else are you gonna find two racers, aiming at the same record, sharing data and help like Shazam and MM/FB are doing?

Just stupendous.  Thanks for reminding me that we're a great community here. :cheers: :cheers:
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5936 on: July 11, 2016, 06:06:40 PM »
I just pulled up the specs on the stock version - If you can get it lowered and the engine stays glued together, it's likely to be the package to beat.

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enspecs.html

And there's a graph for the shift points . . .

http://www.insightcentral.net/_images/ratios.jpg

I imagine you're running the manual?

The 2-3 drop in the gear ratios is a bit wide, but if the powerband is flat, an extra couple of miles with a .25 drag cd will likely be something you can overcome.

Personally, I'm glad I got it when I did, because if this combination works, I think it's going to be a tough nut to crack.

Best of luck to you and Caitlin - Go get it!  :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5937 on: July 11, 2016, 10:34:59 PM »
MM and Shazam,
I couldn’t help myself, and did some calculating.  Boy, its going to be close..
Assuming the Insight has 70 sealevel horsepower, 19.2 square feet of frontal area, Cd = 0.25, and weight of 1900 pounds, I get 123 mph at Bonneville.  Also assuming the gearing is agreeable.

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5938 on: July 12, 2016, 06:00:19 AM »
Hey, before we go totally Japanese here . . . . . . .   :roll:

Ever hear back from Wossner on the pistons? ? ?

Yes, yes, I know you are totally buried @ your day gig . . . . . . .    It's just so . . . . . . .   INCONVENIENT!!

AND, BTW . . .  Where is the "crankshaft porn" you promised weeks ago? ? ? ? ?

Some of us can't wait much longer to see something nekkid . . . .   :roll:    Our time is limited!!   If you aren't going to deliver, us old guys will have to petition Tony to update his avatar . . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5939 on: July 12, 2016, 06:11:06 AM »
So whaddaya want :evil: me to do?  Post nekkid pictures of Nancy or something? Prevert!
Jon E. Wennerberg
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