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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2144189 times)

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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5910 on: June 19, 2016, 06:20:11 PM »
Chris, your last picture tells a lot. If it's getting hot just running in the garage, it should. There's no air going through the rad. It's hard to tell from the picture if there's enough room for a fan attached to the water pump pulley. If so put one there with a full shroud sealed to the rad. If not move the electric fan onto the rad and use a full shroud sealed to the rad on that side. A fan on the water pump side should stick half out of the shroud for maximum efficiency. I'm not a huge fan of electric fans in front of the rad, especially for something that could be marginal with cooling because it's difficult to set them up efficiently.

Hope this helps. It's unfortunate that it probably involves considerable work.

Pete

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5911 on: June 20, 2016, 01:15:13 AM »
Chris, your last picture tells a lot. If it's getting hot just running in the garage, it should. There's no air going through the rad. It's hard to tell from the picture if there's enough room for a fan attached to the water pump pulley. If so put one there with a full shroud sealed to the rad. If not move the electric fan onto the rad and use a full shroud sealed to the rad on that side. A fan on the water pump side should stick half out of the shroud for maximum efficiency. I'm not a huge fan of electric fans in front of the rad, especially for something that could be marginal with cooling because it's difficult to set them up efficiently.

Hope this helps. It's unfortunate that it probably involves considerable work.

Pete

Hey, PJ.

Your concern is mine as well.

I haven't run the engine for a long enough period of time to determine if the fan is or is not effective.  Given it's location - attached to the grill opening on a flip-front bonnet - the hood has to be down for the fan to have any effect.  That test won't occur - actually can't occur - until I'm confident the rest of the cooling system is functioning properly. 

I've yet to run the engine any longer than necessary to open the thermostat (labeled 180 degrees) and circulate some water through the radiator for about a minute after that event - which is why I'm using the candy thermometer to check the water temp in the header tank.  The temp gauge on the dash just shows L to H, and I'm not sure how "H" "H" is, or if the gauge is functioning properly.  I want to adjust the electronic thermostat for the fan to kick in at about 200.

I'm going at this cautiously.

At the end of the day, it probably will need a shroud re-think.

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5912 on: June 20, 2016, 03:57:16 PM »
Mark, Happy Father's Day!

The inlet manifold flow for "bleed" is a "iffey" proposition.   "Iffey" cooling systems cost you peace of mind and MONEY.    Why create another 'K' series cooling system/potential disaster?    

Tutorial time -

Of course, I don't want to create a headache.  But what makes the intake manifold water flow - which is plumbed to the heads though fairly large passages at the top of both the front and the back of the heads - an "iffey" situation?

The top of the head(s) are currently sitting about 1 1/2" below the top of the radiator -



The top of the filler can - or header can - is 4 1/2" above the top of the intake manifold - which is well above the top of the heads and manifold, as well as the radiator -



A shot of the plumbing from above -



The top of the radiator sits slightly above the heads, and the - okay, let's call it a "header tank" - I think I referred to it previously as a "catch can" - sits above everything else in the system.  

Since I last reported on it, it hasn't been spitting, causing me to think that any air in the system has worked its way out, and seeing as I filled it while not running, expansion of the fluid may have occurred.  Nevertheless, it seems to be running on the warm side.  

How warm?   :roll:

Kate's shopping, so I can borrow her candy thermometer . . .  :wink:

midget,

Thanks on the father's day wishes.

OK.  After checking out your photos, your system has MOST of what I described, AND, it is properly placed.    Some lines need to be properly sized, or internally restricted.

What is good:
A/    header/surge tank size and placement
2/    suction line size and placement
d/    radiator placement

What I would do/add:     (keeping in mind that I accept ZERO "issues")
A/    restrict the flow of the upper hose into the header/surge tank to something like 1/8th or 3/16ths Ø.
2     I would add a "bleed line" from the top of the radiator to the h/s tank, also 1/8th or 3/16ths Ø.     Use a "Y" adaptor or weld another bung into the tank.
d/    run an 8/10 psi (or so) coolant recovery pressure cap on the h/s tank.    More psi if you are confident in the system.
z/    I would also add a non-pressurized coolant recovery tank, (ala current street vehicles) to the system at the pressure cap relief fitting.   Plumb this to the bottom of the    
       coolant recovery tank.    This automatically allows hot engine regurgitated H2O to be "re-ingested" as the engine temp cools, engine running or not.   Thus,
       coolant level becomes "maintenance free".    Well, as much as anything is, on a specialty vehicle.

BTW:  that upper hose to the h/s tank looks crimped/kinked.     But we all know that you are a kinky bugger . . . . . . . .    :roll:

Again, just my 2¢  

But if you want to make it to Hoosierland, and back above the "Cheddar Curtain" in the middle of summer . . . . . . . . . . .    :-)

I also suspect that airflow through the radiator might be minimal at low speeds and/or stop and go traffic.    You will need to determine that via testing on the road.    Whether an electric fan or engine fan will be adequate? ?


Back to my flowbench fixtures . . . . .

edit:  In my experience, hot, engine out coolant should go into the bottom of the radiator, and coolant out the top of the radiator should go to the water pump inlet.   This "flow direction" tends to "self-bleed" air from the radiator/system.   If the flow is reversed, you definitely need a bleed line.    Again, just my 2¢ 

Back to fixtures . . . . .
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 04:15:44 PM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5913 on: June 20, 2016, 07:47:50 PM »
Chris,
I must have given you the Top Fuel cam by mistake. OOPS.
Terry

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5914 on: June 20, 2016, 11:44:42 PM »
Chris,
I must have given you the Top Fuel cam by mistake. OOPS.
Terry


Oh, sure . . . give me the cam, and keep the blower . . .

Actually, as I'm getting this thing closer, the idle is a nice burble - just sharp enough to let someone know it's not stock, but not so lumpy that it's likely to be a problem on the street.  :wink:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5915 on: June 21, 2016, 08:36:29 AM »
That would depend on how the right foot is indexed.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Brexit
« Reply #5916 on: June 24, 2016, 08:27:57 AM »
I see the British voters provided American buyers an 8% discount on engine parts today.

Sorry to see you go, Mr. Cameron, but on the way out, could you drop off a post for me?  I think I'll be doing some bearing shopping this afternoon . . .  :wink:
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 09:38:40 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5917 on: June 24, 2016, 08:28:21 PM »
This probably will lead to Scotland, Gibraltar, and Northern Ireland going their own ways.  There are a lot of folks that would not mind rolling the clock back a week and voting a bit different.  Of course, no one can predict the future when they drop in that ballot.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5918 on: June 25, 2016, 01:04:19 AM »
This probably will lead to Scotland, Gibraltar, and Northern Ireland going their own ways.  There are a lot of folks that would not mind rolling the clock back a week and voting a bit different.  Of course, no one can predict the future when they drop in that ballot.

All true and possible or likely.

But here's what I know.

The British pound has taken a big hit, yet they're still under EU trade rules.  There's no telling if the pound will rise or fall from this point on, but this is a significant enough drop relative to the dollar that, with respect to what I need to purchase for the K-engine, buying now is wise, regardless as to whether the pound has hit rock bottom or not.  It's an equation of good value versus time constraints.

Yes, I'm being very mercenary about all of this.

Because, as you point out, this was a ballot drop.  Once the politicians start taking control and interpreting "the will of the people" , the trend will be toward stability.  Right now, instability is my friend, because stability will trend to a higher pound.

If you live outside of the UK, now is the time to get those imported Triumph, BSA and Norton parts. 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Hoody

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5919 on: June 25, 2016, 04:13:17 AM »
This probably will lead to Scotland, Gibraltar, and Northern Ireland going their own ways.  There are a lot of folks that would not mind rolling the clock back a week and voting a bit different.  Of course, no one can predict the future when they drop in that ballot.


Scotland may leave, however they would currently have issues with supporting themselves due to the drop in oil prices which they claimed in the last referendum would pay for their economy. Before NI can call a referendum they have to prove the public are behind them which there is no evidence of at this time. As far as Gibraltar goes i have no idea, although i would be surprised if they rejoined Spain as some are claiming due to Spain being an economic  basket case like a lot of southern Europe at the moment.

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5920 on: July 05, 2016, 04:48:45 PM »
midget,

Scored some discard 6mm ID valve guides (Honda? ? ?) from off the Serdi @ T&T when I cleaned off the machine.

I'm hoping that they might be suitable for "dummy guides" for further flow testing, but who knows at this point.

I have 2 projects I need to complete before I can devote any time to the 'K', but you knew that.

You still need to make some decisions to finalize some dimensions so the rest of the parts can be specified and possibly ordered.

Any idea when your schedule will return to sanity?

Oh wait, I just remembered, you live in "Beerhaven" . . . . . . .  and it is Summerfest week . . . . . .

Hope you got to chug some Jack with Willie (or whoever).     Get back to me when you awaken . . . . .   :-D

 :dhorse:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5921 on: July 06, 2016, 04:56:04 PM »

You still need to make some decisions to finalize some dimensions so the rest of the parts can be specified and possibly ordered.

Any idea when your schedule will return to sanity?


Well, I'm not working Summerfest this year, but the day job is a huge time suck, I still haven't resourced a human, but I am scheduling interviews, and while the overtime is nice, sometimes money just costs too much. 

But I do want to take advantage of what I'm seeing as an opportunity to save some dough due to the decline of the pound against the dollar.  So I've eyed up 3 cams from Piper I'm looking at.

You mentioned you were looking for a "high energy" lobe, quick open, and I'm thinking the ARK1444 might fall into that category.  Shorter duration, but again, we've got the ridiculous R/S ratio facing us down, so the relative tdc and bdc timing is exaggerated.  I'm going to use the Vizard calculator and see what I come up with.  Seeing as we can now adjust the overlap - I already have the adjustable cam pulleys - do we have enough information to chose a grind?  I'd like to pull the trigger before the mad dogs and Englishman come to their senses . . .



Piper grinds

Model      Int   Ex   lift   lift

ARK1444              276   276   .481   .479

ARKBP320M    290   280   .460   .440

ARK1227            280   280   .462   .460
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5922 on: July 08, 2016, 06:09:48 AM »
You mentioned you were looking for a "high energy" lobe, quick open, and I'm thinking the ARK1444 might fall into that category.  Shorter duration, but again, we've got the ridiculous R/S ratio facing us down, so the relative tdc and bdc timing is exaggerated.  I'm going to use the Vizard calculator and see what I come up with.  Seeing as we can now adjust the overlap - I already have the adjustable cam pulleys - do we have enough information to chose a grind?  I'd like to pull the trigger before the mad dogs and Englishman come to their senses . . .



Piper grinds

Model      Int   Ex   lift   lift

ARK1444              276   276   .481   .479

ARKBP320M    290   280   .460   .440

ARK1227            280   280   .462   .460

I'll dig out the info I have on the Piper grinds and crunch it.   You might want to consider a cam "kit" from them, to solve all the valve train issues in one fell swoop.   I seem to remember all the Brit racers are using Piper cams for their 'K' series engines.

Maybe they also use 'rat' pistons from Hamlin . . . . . . 

 :cheers:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5923 on: July 08, 2016, 08:49:18 PM »
"Maybe they also use 'rat' pistons from Hamlin . . . . . ."

Arrrggghhh.....................

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ 
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5924 on: July 09, 2016, 09:22:23 AM »
midget,

I noticed that Gary Gray, Shazam Racing, has entered for Speed Week this year, with his 2001 Honda Insight.   I did an internet search for info about his car/results, and came up with some results from his Texas Mile entry, March of 2015.

https://www.texasmile.net/mileresults.php?event=15&cni=3672

I think Gary is a member here, I believe he has posted to your diary on occasion.     Gary, if you are out there lurking, let us know what your plans are, and how your Insight is going.    Hope you have good salt and good luck.     I'm hoping that there will be more entries in I/GT in the near future.    How cool would THAT be?

Gary, any chance of you creating a "Build Diary" for your Honda?    It is unclear from the Texas Mile data if you run as a "hybrid" or as gasoline powered only.

BTW, I'm currently driving a 2010 4 door Insight, and have owned one of the earlier, smaller 2 door versions.

 :cheers:
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein