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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2259809 times)

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Offline hoffman900

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5820 on: April 04, 2016, 06:12:09 PM »
I think Mark hit the nail on the head.

Another detriment to a Hemi is its propensity to overscavenge - but that's nothing offsetting the valves (lots of machining $$$), 55* exhaust valve seats, and/or sinking the exhaust valve can't fix  :wink:

Heron heads don't work for the same reason rocket engines don't just dump into the atmosphere starting at the throat.

The true evolution of the 2 valve combustion chamber can be seen in your high end, purpose designed 2 valve race engines:



Turn a laval nozzle on it's side and add a bore/cylinder and voila!

and don't discount what doing something like this will do for a vintage bathtube combustion chamber!
http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67302027-Doing-some-stupid-Subaru-to-an-old-datsun-head
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 06:24:22 PM by hoffman900 »

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5821 on: April 05, 2016, 11:03:01 AM »
Billet head for a Harley?     Or?

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline hoffman900

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5822 on: April 05, 2016, 04:40:13 PM »
Billet head for a Harley?     Or?

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Close!

NHRA Pro Stock Buell.

More pictures here: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487488&page=4


Another chamber:

Offline grumm441

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5823 on: April 06, 2016, 05:12:05 PM »

I'm no expert on engine designs, but have no gripes about Heron-head configuration. The not-modern (1982) Moto Guzzi V50 I ride is far from a "turd". It doesn't have "LOTS of static compression" (less than 11:1), no direct fuel injection, and no blower, and doesn't use an inordinate amount of ignition timing. HP peaks at 49, with very usable torque across a wide band.


Don't get me started
these things are legendary for valve failures
and then there's my other favorite heron head bike

I run a Heron head Moto Morini and Fordboy is correct�NOT a good design for racing�It is from the earliest days of OHV engine�

Robert
The Baron Race Team

the Moto Morini
the piston failure motor.
Morini decided to put T slots in the pistons to deal with the heat of having a combustion chamber in them.
so if you give them a rev, the piston skirt falls off

G

Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
Wazavudu Bellytank  Spirit of Sunshine Bellytank

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5824 on: April 06, 2016, 09:29:36 PM »

so if you give them a rev, the skirt falls off

G

G... you say that like its a bad thing.... have known a few girls that were just that way...  :-D
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5825 on: April 07, 2016, 05:56:56 AM »
Billet head for a Harley?     Or?

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Close!

NHRA Pro Stock Buell.

More pictures here: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487488&page=4


Another chamber:


I'm going to say a Nascar Cup head, not sure which manufacturer, but I'm pretty sure it is not a Chevy.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline gearheadeh

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5826 on: April 07, 2016, 06:39:57 AM »
Which ever it is .... the cylinder bores are siamesed. not much room between them   :-o
40 is the old age of Youth, 50 is the young age of the Senior years.

Offline wisdonm

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5827 on: April 07, 2016, 08:58:12 AM »
An image search says the heads are the LS R Reaper heads done by Frankenstein racing heads right at 500+ CFM.
LSR Reaper head on a 283 with a 14 71 blower.



Powers this Pro Comp Eliminator BB/A. Disregard the 868. that was the old motor.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 11:09:56 PM by wisdonm »
Stand on it....brakes only slow you down.

Has a checkered past.

Offline hoffman900

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5828 on: April 07, 2016, 07:11:26 PM »
Yep, they're Frankenstein's LSR head.

http://www.frankensteinracingheads.com/recent-media/photos-recent-news-2
https://www.facebook.com/FrankensteinRacingHeads/photos_stream

How they treat the Hemi:


The dam in between helps with overscavenge issues.

Also look at for Pro Stock level cylinder head examples:

CFE Racing Heads:
http://www.cferacing.com/?pid=1010

Slawko:
https://www.facebook.com/Slawko-Racing-Heads-167343139947312/

RFD:
http://raceflowdevelopment.com/ (Curtis also does the heads on Championship FF and FC engines (Ford Kent)).


Just a slight divergent...  :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 07:18:56 PM by hoffman900 »

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5829 on: April 09, 2016, 06:59:14 AM »
I'm going to say a Nascar Cup head, not sure which manufacturer, but I'm pretty sure it is not a Chevy.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

See!!!  What the heck do I know???

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5830 on: April 09, 2016, 07:52:56 AM »

How they treat the Hemi:


The dam in between helps with overscavenge issues.


What is interesting to me is that:  The combustion chamber shape on their Hemi is VERY similar to what a Lotus TwinCam chamber looks like when I am done modifying it.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline wisdonm

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5831 on: April 09, 2016, 07:55:03 AM »
That's because a Chevy NASCAR STOCK car engine is Not what they sell to the public. There is no stock in stock car anymore. Nothing.
Stand on it....brakes only slow you down.

Has a checkered past.

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5832 on: April 11, 2016, 05:53:54 AM »
midget,

Flatout advises that the head gaskets are finished and ready to be shipped.

I'll have them sent to the ranch.

OBOY!!  Parts!!

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Gaskets arrived yesterday @ 10 am.     They looked good but I was frustrated about how to check them out.   Offering them up to the LMS sample gasket seemed like they were "slightly shrunken", perhaps from the copying process.

Then I had a brilliant idea!!!!    Offered one up to the cylinder head flow bench fixture!    It's slightly tight on the locating dowels, but matches up to the bores pretty well.   Gasket bore Ø measures 76.6mm on a 76.5mm spec so that is good.    I'll also offer it up to the head, take a photo and post it later.

An "offer up" to the block will be the final check.    Worst case scenario would be some "slight" relieving of the bore edge, something I've had to do before, so I'm OK with it.

Thanks to Mark Adelizzi and everyone @ Flatout Gaskets for producing a totally custom piece for an "orphan engine".     Mark is a long time gasket guy, formerly with Fel-Pro.    We opted to use his proprietary "coated solid copper" gasket material, because of the need to seal the water in the alloy Rover block.    If you are using solid copper gaskets with a water jacket, you might give his product a try.   Available in many thicknesses.    Check Flatout Gasket's site:

https://www.flatoutgroup.com/Default.aspx

I did take some photos, but I'm just not up to fighting with PhotoBucket at the moment.    I'll post them when I have more time.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

At long last, the photos of the solid copper head gaskets:





The one I fitted was "slightly" tight on the dowels in the flow fixture, but it seems workable.   And at ~ half the thickness of the stock gasket, a HUGE compression ratio gain.   We also gained compression ratio over the Cometic head gasket.   Their only option for bore Ø opening was 83mm.   Flatout was able to produce a custom 76.5mm opening for this special application.

It's nice to be able to get a part designed specifically for a small displacement application . . . . . .  as opposed to trying to make a "silk purse out of a sow's ear".

Photo of the gasket matched up to the head later.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5833 on: April 11, 2016, 04:50:35 PM »
Gaaaa!!!!

I have been referring to the possibility of this phenomena for several decades.

This is the first photographic evidence that I am aware of.



I don't think that he is just "snortin' the nitrous" . . . . . .   but it does appear that he has been "turned loose" on that carb . . . . . .



Slim/BobC,

We need a new imogee . . . .   dare I suggest:   Spankin' the monkey!!!!     :roll:

 :dhorse:
Soontobereplacedbyamonkeyboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5834 on: April 11, 2016, 04:57:50 PM »
Ahhhh . . .

Well, give him and 999,999 of his pals enough time, he may well build a competitive engine.

After all, the longest journey begins with the first step.

The question then becomes, "is this a trip you really want to make?"
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!