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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2259788 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5715 on: March 13, 2016, 04:17:17 PM »
As I just know that Chris is on the verge of winning the Power Ball lotto, so based upon the potential of unlimited funds that will then be available, have you ever thought about making a 3/4 inch (19mm) thick dry deck plate that would separate the head from the block but most importantly provide a place where you could make some good 1/4 wide counter bores that you could then shrink the new aluminum sleeves into, plus it would strengthen the block and eliminate the somewhat minimalist head from having to do some structural work that it appears less than able to do.

Rex  

Rex, I was SO CLOSE on the PB yesterday.  Had 5 numbers been completely different, I'd by writing this post on a jet to Fiji.

I'm just trying to think which eye I want poked out at this time.

My recent thought was maybe whip up some aluminum jugs similar to the drawing I put together, weld them into place top and bottom, mill the top and bore it for iron liners.

If we can get by with a .010 cleanup in the casting bore, we pick up .25 mm surface on the liner boss, then we can take the B dimension up to 90.25, which would exceed the top diameter of the much of the casting boss for the liners - they're oblong (:roll:) - but we lose our additional support at the lip of the jug, which would also need to be taken to 90.25.


At 79 mm depth into an albeit thin aluminum cast boss with the interference fit of an iron sleeve having a 4.375 mm wall thickness, I'm thinking now that in conjunction with O-rings on the combustion chamber, lateral stability and sheer shouldn't be an issue.

I do want to have as much of this ready to discuss intelligently with Darton - or whomever - before we place an order.  Ideally, I'd like to put together a print that only needs to be clarified with the shop.  Darton's engineering services are costly, but still cheaper than screwing it up, so biting the bullet looks like my most cost effective and risk-averse bet.



« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 08:38:42 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline hoffman900

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5716 on: March 13, 2016, 09:10:51 PM »
Mark, et-al,

Just chiming in to say what a great thread this is!

Cheers,
Bob

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5717 on: March 14, 2016, 12:26:13 AM »
Welcome aboard, Hoffman900.  Thanks for taking the time.  It's been an odyssey.


 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5718 on: March 14, 2016, 05:05:04 AM »
Mark, et-al,

Just chiming in to say what a great thread this is!

Cheers,
Bob

Hi Bob,

Welcome to Landracing.    You will find this site much larger than the VRRF site, about 10 times the number of registered participants, and a distinct lack of "whiners".   The "projects" are way more diverse and, I think, more interesting.    Many of the participants have extensive "Build Diaries", in which their project is carefully documented, for all to view.    I know you have spent some time on the midget's build previously.    Might I also suggest that you spend a bit of time digging through some of the other long running "Build Diaries", the diversity, quality and fabrication is amazing.    In addition, there is a spirit of helpful co-operation on this site, that I have not found elsewhere.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5719 on: March 14, 2016, 05:25:13 AM »
As above, but 2014:



Mike

Woody,

Is this what you had in mind?





Mike,

Thanks for "rainin on my parade" man.     :roll:

I don't even want to think about what I'm going to look like @ 80!!

Maybe, if I'm really lucky, I'll be as good looking as Freud!!

My younger brother's plan was to:
A/   Live Fast
2/   Die young
d/   and make a "good lookin' corpse"

He is 0 fer 3 . . . . .

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
C'estlavieboy
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 05:31:54 AM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5720 on: March 14, 2016, 09:27:27 AM »
midget,

Setting up to make the combustion chamber cast today.    Pics later.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5721 on: March 14, 2016, 10:15:51 AM »

Going COMPLETELY off topic . . . .
 

Ahhhh . . . . .   isn't that what we do?

Just sayin' . . . . .

 :dhorse:
Fordboy

Well, having been jolted back into the reality that is 2016 by 4 Barrel Mike, I guess I have to resubmit an updated nomination for "French Curve".



Notable actress, Parisian and Bond Girl, Eva Green.

Again, C'est si bon.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5722 on: March 14, 2016, 10:17:20 AM »
As we are now addressing block clamp loads, I want to revisit a pair of posts IO put up many months back - I highlighted a point I blew past the first time around. 


In light of this, the ARP 50 lb-ft spec, resulting in almost 12,000 lb of bolt load seems quite excessive.  It is not clear how much consideration they may have given the system into which their part is fitted It looks like they just specified a torque that gave their preferred 75% of yield on the stud.  That much load might wreak havoc on the engine parts.  Using a stud does have the advantage of possibly being able to pull the head without undoing the rest of the engine.


OK, now we’re looking a bit more realistic.
The 20nm torque would produce 3400 lb tension at about 43,000 psi shank stress--and probably take the best part of the squeeze out of the MLS gasket.
Then, superimposing the half-turn, we total up to about 7,600 lb bolt load and 96,000 psi shank stress--or somewhat less due to further compression of the gasket and all the aluminum in the stack.  We can approximate that later.

The 2 x 180 degree turns would be about 11,800 lb and 149,000 psi which seems like a lot.  Perhaps this was the spec for the early versions with a presumably composition (more compressive) head gasket, which would not result in reaching these numbers.














"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline hoffman900

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5723 on: March 14, 2016, 09:36:49 PM »
Mark, et-al,

Just chiming in to say what a great thread this is!

Cheers,
Bob

Hi Bob,

Welcome to Landracing.    You will find this site much larger than the VRRF site, about 10 times the number of registered participants, and a distinct lack of "whiners".   The "projects" are way more diverse and, I think, more interesting.    Many of the participants have extensive "Build Diaries", in which their project is carefully documented, for all to view.    I know you have spent some time on the midget's build previously.    Might I also suggest that you spend a bit of time digging through some of the other long running "Build Diaries", the diversity, quality and fabrication is amazing.    In addition, there is a spirit of helpful co-operation on this site, that I have not found elsewhere.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Thanks Mark. Love this place already. The build threads here are incredible - I love all the bike stuff too. I'll be doing a lot more reading than posting here for sure.

Also, btw, I have EngMod4T now. I trialed it when I was in University, but have my own license finally. I started to piece together my engine in it. Per usual, trying to model the camshaft is the most difficult aspect...

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5724 on: March 14, 2016, 09:45:11 PM »
I have to geek out on this one - was there ever a better series than early Trans-Am?

https://twitter.com/MrDavidHobbs/status/709043433764212737

The Penske Camaro and Javelin and the Follmer Mustang.  Only thing missing is Swede Savage's 'Cuda.

Mr. Hobbs has a Honda dealership here in Beerhaven - still hoping to talk him into driving the Midget . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5725 on: March 15, 2016, 05:11:17 AM »
I have to geek out on this one - was there ever a better series than early Trans-Am?

https://twitter.com/MrDavidHobbs/status/709043433764212737

The Penske Camaro and Javelin and the Follmer Mustang.  Only thing missing is Swede Savage's 'Cuda.

Mr. Hobbs has a Honda dealership here in Beerhaven - still hoping to talk him into driving the Midget . . .

midget,

My buddy Andy Boone used to own the Swede Savage 'Cuda.    I'll send him a PM to find out if he still owns it.

Andy is bringing the McLeagle to Road America in July for the vintage race.    We are going.    Mark your calendar.   It will be your only opportunity to sit in a real Can-Am car.  And you will get to meet the infamous Ray-Bob Thron, he has a "replica" Follmer Mustang, . . . . . .   I'm sure he will be there also.

If fact, depending on who shows up, there probably will be a least a partial (if not complete) reunion of the Apex Racing Shop, Humbuggery, & Idiot League, circa 1975 or so. 

Are we taking the girls?    Mrs. Fordboy likes brats, but not beer, and is easily bored . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5726 on: March 17, 2016, 05:29:13 AM »
midget,

Thursday is my weekly day @ "drag city".    Call me on my cell after 9am.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5727 on: March 17, 2016, 09:52:54 AM »
midget,

Thursday is my weekly day @ "drag city".    Call me on my cell after 9am.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Don and I will assume you're talking about T&T in Gurnee, and that you're not shoe shopping on St. Patrick's Day in Andersonville . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5728 on: March 18, 2016, 06:19:25 AM »
midget,

Thursday is my weekly day @ "drag city".    Call me on my cell after 9am.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Don and I will assume you're talking about T&T in Gurnee, and that you're not shoe shopping on St. Patrick's Day in Andersonville . . .

Uhhh . . . . . .

NO to Andersonville.

YES to Gurnee.

St. Paddy's day . . . . . .  Brings back BAD memories of a childhood spent in parochial prison.

 :cry:   :cry:   :cry:
NowIneedtotalktomyshrinkagainboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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  • GONE FISHIN' . . .
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5729 on: March 18, 2016, 09:21:19 AM »
midget,

Just poured the cast of the combustion chamber.    6 hour cure time for the mold.   Photos later.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein