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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2233687 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5625 on: February 26, 2016, 07:43:26 PM »
Hey, Terry -

After Mark gets done with the modeling, we're going to be looking at cam combinations that are available, and only if there's nothing workable will we be considering a custom grind.

As to align honing/boring the cam bores, probably not wise.

This is the ladder that holds the cams in place.  Yet another light-weight casting, and there's not a lot of material to work with.  The overall thickness is .300 . . .



. . . but the flip side shows the casting - what - relieved (?) - another .063, leaving only .237 of material to work with on the top side.  As the design has the cam turning on the casting with no bearing, and as we're going to be using a heavier set of springs, the idea of taking material out of this area doesn't seem prudent.



Also, the new oil pump arrived.  I'm going to take the old one apart and see if I can't make an adjustable pressure regulator for it.







Hey, Podunk - I still owe you some money for shipping the plate.  Drop me an e-mail, I just got paid.  :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 07:53:09 PM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5626 on: February 26, 2016, 08:09:29 PM »

 Are camshafts going to be one offs?       If so bearing diameters could be made to suit.


Cams are probably going to come from the extensive inventory of Brit OHC designs.    Piper seems to have concentrated on cams for K series DOHC engines.   Want to use a "high intensity" grind to maximize torque and keep the torque curve as flat as possible in the intended rpm range.

Even with a "custom" bearing journal diameter, stuff still has to fit in the limited "packaging space" available.

"Packaging is everything."
  Keith Duckworth

 :cheers:
Fordboy
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5627 on: February 26, 2016, 08:17:11 PM »
midget,

Spoke with Apex about their Tobin-Arp cam align bore machine.  Currently in service.   The cutter bar is 15/16ths diameter, so the minimum bore diameter they can repair is ~ 31/32nds, say .969"    They were not thrilled about the prospect of milling the cam ladder in prep for the align bore.   :roll:

I'll measure up the journal size on one of the cams, but I'm not optimisty about the size . . . . . .   :|

Back to beverage evaluation . . . . . .  before the Winter Lager turns . . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Fordboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5628 on: February 26, 2016, 08:30:19 PM »

Also, the new oil pump arrived.  I'm going to take the old one apart and see if I can't make an adjustable pressure regulator for it.









midget,

Looks like all that is needed is a threaded adjuster and a mating threaded plug to replace the existing stock plunger spring plug.   A bit of thread measurement, some rudimentary math, some material and an accurate lathe gets it done.     Piece of cake.

I have some threaded adjusters made up for a different application.   But they might work.   Machining up a special size, with say a metric thread, just to keep the engine's threads "unified", shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

HEEEY, maybe you should use a Whitworth thread.   You know, just to pay homage to the MG heritage . . . . . . .   :-D

I think I need another beverage . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Needametallatheboy
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5629 on: February 27, 2016, 05:51:44 AM »
midget, Podunk, et all,

I measured up the cam journal Ø on the used cams that are @ the "ranch":  .963"/.964"  (24.46mm/24.48mm), so I am going to conclude that the mating bore Ø should be 24.5mm/24.52mm (.9645"/.9653").

Seems like it might be "just" possible on the Tobin-Arp, and likely a giant pain in the keister to actually accomplish.

Here's hoping that having to utilize the 2nd head is an unlikely possibility.

On a limited look at the damage to the head casting and the cams, it appears that a batch of "trash" was pumped through the engine's oiling system, damaging many load carrying surfaces.   It is unknown what the source of the trash might have been, let's just say this particular engine probably had a hard life.   And this is the bane of the K series engine: elegant and efficient design coupled with above average sensitivity to "lack of maintenance".   Unperformed maintenance, in this instance, is an engine killer.   Too bad that in the stock form it has to compete with all those un-named "rice grinders" that "Take a lickin" and "Keep on tickin".

I submit, for your approval, that the nickname for the new engine, engraved tag by SSS, should be:  TIMEX

 :cheers:
Stillfluentinmetricboy
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5630 on: February 27, 2016, 02:00:46 PM »
Yes, and engine name - the name "Grenade" came out of a description of an A series engine that Peter Egan wrote about a number of years ago.  Hands down, the greatest living automotive columnist in America. 

"Kettle" seems to be the preferred nickname in Great Britain, due to the engine's notoriety to boil over.

We could confuse ALL of the MG folks and simply refer to it as "the Twin Cam" - let 'em think we're actually crazy enough to pull a 1600 cc B engine variant out of one of the most collectable MGs ever produced - That could alienate a lot of my purist friends. 

"Special K" is too easy and obvious.

I had thought "1KK", but that's one "K" too close to being in total opposition to my basic principals, morals and upbringing.

"MGK" is the monogram for "Machine Gun Kelly", and I'm not a fan of Rap.

I'm thinking "Carol", as in "Carol Kaye".  One of the most prolific bass players in pop music, a member of "The Wrecking Crew", worked with Glen Campbell, Phil Spector, Frank Zappa.

I don't think anybody's ever nicknamed an engine after her, but she's certainly powered a number of records.  :roll:





"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline RichFox

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5631 on: February 27, 2016, 02:21:30 PM »
When I was in High School I delivered photographs and picked up rolls of film for developing from drug stores. Usually in English Ford cars. But once the Anglia was being serviced and the boss had me take his twin cam MGA to make a quick delivery. i thought I was just the coolest thing around foe a few miles.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5632 on: February 27, 2016, 03:00:06 PM »
I love my MGB, but the MGA is just beautiful.  I've got a friend here in the MG club who has been restoring a Twin Cam.  Actually, a buddy of Fordboy's is doing the engine build.  They have their challenges, and the engine had a poor reputation with respect to reliability, but when properly assembled and maintained, it's a sub-2 liter world beater.

It's the engine that MG used to set FIA records with Ken Miles, Phil Hill and Sterling Moss at Bonneville in the late 1950s.  About a half dozen still stand.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5633 on: February 27, 2016, 04:43:42 PM »
Midget... I kinda like K1K.... maybe the engine will have a little kick....
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Online Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5634 on: February 27, 2016, 06:28:21 PM »
How about hone cam bores to cleanup. Chrome camshaft bearing journals and grind to suit. Chrome is pretty slick too. :dhorse:

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5635 on: February 28, 2016, 03:10:47 AM »
I love my MGB, but the MGA is just beautiful.  I've got a friend here in the MG club who has been restoring a Twin Cam.  Actually, a buddy of Fordboy's is doing the engine build. They have their challenges, and the engine had a poor reputation with respect to reliability, but when properly assembled and maintained, it's a sub-2 liter world beater.

It's the engine that MG used to set FIA records with Ken Miles, Phil Hill and Sterling Moss at Bonneville in the late 1950s.  About a half dozen still stand.

Would that be the infamous DCB?

Or perchance does the owner have the sense to take it to Wild Bill @ Apex?

Just askin'.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5636 on: February 28, 2016, 08:18:04 AM »
midget,

Saaay,   I was looking at how the cams fit into both heads, and there is about .080" (~ 2mm) of end play. (?)   I know that the cam ladder is dowelled to the head for precise location of the cam bearing bores.    Is the cam end play controlled more precisely by the thrust surfaces in the ladder?   If you have any cams in Beerhaven, take a quick look and measure the end play please.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
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I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5637 on: February 28, 2016, 08:19:22 AM »
 I kinda like K1K.... maybe the engine will have a little kick....

How about  KaK       Kick  :dhorse: K
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5638 on: February 28, 2016, 08:50:57 AM »

Yes, and engine name - the name "Grenade" came out of a description of an A series engine that Peter Egan wrote about a number of years ago.  Hands down, the greatest living automotive columnist in America. 


I'm thinking "Carol", as in "Carol Kaye".  One of the most prolific bass players in pop music, a member of "The Wrecking Crew", worked with Glen Campbell, Phil Spector, Frank Zappa.

I don't think anybody's ever nicknamed an engine after her, but she's certainly powered a number of records.  :roll:



Too bad she didn't play on the A-Team theme music!!

BUT, since she played the bass on 'Pet Sounds', the greatest album ever of "American Pop",  I'm in with the choice.

BTW, thanks for pickin' a "backup" musician . . . . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Formerlybassboy
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5639 on: February 28, 2016, 12:05:33 PM »
You'd better learn the chords:

Oh! Carol
 I am but a fool
 Darling, I love you
 Though you treat me cruel