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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2233673 times)

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5565 on: February 15, 2016, 09:17:57 AM »

It also helps to have a mantra.  For years, it was to build -

"the fastest damned stock bodied, naturally aspirated, five-port, one liter Midget ever to hit the salt".


The first factory MG to run at Bonneville was the EX 135, a Dinkey model of which was given to me by Dr. Goggles.  It sits next to the Midget's trophy and certificate on the built-in in the dining room.

We're looking for 135 horsepower.

We're looking for a 135 mph run.

135 is the mantra today - one number, three meanings.


Easy there big fella . . . . .    Let's break the 125 bhp barrier first.

BUT, BTW:
1981   Cosworth BDJ    1099.4 cc's

          150 min bhp    @  10,000 rpm
            80 min lb/ft   torque @ 8,000 rpm

Lucas Mechanical Fuel Injection; Lucas OPUS Ignition, distributor triggered; on gasoline; dry sumped.

That's 136.4 bhp per liter . . . . . . . . .        And at 993.88 cc's that is 135.6 bhp

That's a pretty good goal.     :-D

A one eyed visionary can be king . . . . . . . . . . . in the realm of the blind men . . . . . . . . . .   :wink:

If we use the methodology outlined by our buddy dw230, I guess it's more alcohol for us, and NO DAM* SALAD!!

 :cheers:  :dhorse:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5566 on: February 15, 2016, 11:58:59 PM »
... I know what I wrote...
I sure didn't manage to read what you wrote- sorry. :oops:
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5567 on: February 16, 2016, 09:12:52 AM »
midget,

I had talked about doing this previously.    You might find the revision of this post interesting . . . . . .

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14175.msg287690.html#msg287690

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5568 on: February 16, 2016, 02:54:54 PM »
midget,

OK, some valve/throat sizing reference data for your records:

Data for Conrad Rover Test 01

Intake valve  Ø  1.089"               Exhaust valve  Ø  .948"
Intake throat Ø    .948"               Exhaust throat Ø  .799"
Intake           %    87.1                Exhaust            %  84.3


It is important to note that as the valve size may be increased, the % will probably go down a bit.

More data coming up soon.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 02:59:53 PM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5569 on: February 16, 2016, 09:56:39 PM »
Now THIS is a DECK PLATE -



One step closer.  It weighs in at 19 lbs - about 1 lb lighter than the block itself.

It's my thought that once we start to whittlin' on the block, this should help keep things stable.

Yet another fine Podunk Performance Product from the ingenious Indianan, the Toolmaster of Merrillville - Thanks, Terry!


Also found a NOS K series oil pump stateside at some unfortunate Land Rover dealership in California - they can now make room on their shelf for other, more profitable paper weights.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5570 on: February 16, 2016, 11:28:38 PM »
With the investment in this engine would you not be better off using a dry sump system both to keep the oil in the crankcase to a minimum and to ensure the complete lubrication of the engine?  :? :? :-D

Pete

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5571 on: February 16, 2016, 11:30:54 PM »
Bye the way, that's a really nice engine plate. Nice job Podunk!  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline tauruck

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5572 on: February 17, 2016, 12:14:20 AM »
There's a local guy that actually reproduces the plastic thermostat housing in Aluminium for that Rover motor.
Unfortunately we aren't friends anymore. :evil:

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5573 on: February 17, 2016, 01:03:54 AM »
With the investment in this engine would you not be better off using a dry sump system both to keep the oil in the crankcase to a minimum and to ensure the complete lubrication of the engine?  :? :? :-D

Pete

Yup, I would be, but given the block design and the integration of the pump on the outside of the front of the block, I'm disinclined to reengineer the housing.

I'm thinking a simple windage tray should help settle things down in the sump.  Another rather cool feature of this block is that the oil drainback passages run to the bottom of the girdle, so it could well be possible that the oil from the head could be routed to exit below the windage tray.  I need to look at it a little closer, but it looks fairly possible that the only oil I'll need to really worry about roping the crank would be primarily the oil slung from the crank and rods.  It's not nearly the rain storm and garden sprinkler arrangement the A-series is.
 
My tentative scheme is to replace the plastic oil pickup with a braided line, and I haven't ruled out an external pump to oil the head and draw crankcase vacuum.  It wouldn't need to be a very large capacity unit.  By plugging the main oiling circuit to the head, let the stock pump handle the bottom end, and going with an external pump, I think we could better control the head lubrication, possibly direct oil to critical areas on the exhaust side to better dissipate heat (Thank you, Sparky) and possibly do so with less oil as we're losing the hydraulic lifters.

Chatting out loud on this one - nothing carved in stone yet.

There's a local guy that actually reproduces the plastic thermostat housing in Aluminium for that Rover motor.
Unfortunately we aren't friends anymore. :evil:

That is a whole different worm can.  Part of the problem with the K overheating can be traced to the thermostat location.  There's not a lot of water in this block, and it's prone to thermo shock in standard applications that haven't been well maintained. 

We'll also likely vent the water jackets in the head to prevent steam build up.  The earlier K blocks had such a feature, but the later ones did away with it.  As stock applications changed, the radiator and overflow tank placements also changed, and the vents were deemed unnecessary by the MG/Rover bean counters.

In the war between engineers and bean counters, as engineers retire, bean counters receive bonuses.

And thus ends this weeks tale of the demise, rebirth and recurring demise of the roller coaster known as the British auto industry.

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5574 on: February 17, 2016, 01:34:34 AM »
"Chatting out loud on this one - nothing carved in stone yet.`

It`s called brainstorming Chris. It works and this site is an amazing tool for the process.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Pete

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5575 on: February 17, 2016, 06:34:13 AM »
Podunk,

Great looking plate!!!

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5576 on: February 17, 2016, 06:51:36 AM »
midget,

In the interest of NOT re-inventing the wheel, er, dry sump kit:

http://qedmotorsport.co.uk/qed-shop/view-all-products-in-shop?keyword1=pace%20dry%20sump%20rover%20k%20serie

                                               OR

http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/pumps-and-dry-sumps/dry-sump-kits/

                                                OR

https://www.google.com/search?q=k+series+dry+sump+system&sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&noj=1&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwj99r-S7f7KAhVC4iYKHSIKBdkQsAQIKw

 :dhorse:

I still have a batch of Titan 3 stage dry sump pumps, so there might be a way to engineer a kit with those.    I want to wait until we do the "mock fit-up" in the chassis, before considering a dry sump.   Space available is going to be a determining factor here.   The room for headers and inlet manifold & injection needs to take precedence.   Probably can be done, as the Brits cram all these bits into a Caterham.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 07:02:12 AM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5577 on: February 17, 2016, 07:07:52 AM »
midget,

I volunteer my letter/number stamp sets for labeling the torque plate.

You supply the BFH.   And the beer . . . . . . .   :-D

I'm thinking that some sort of steel "spacers" will be required to use the ARP stud kit with the plate.    I think that they will need to be fitted above the plate to compensate for the "grip length" of the studs.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5578 on: February 17, 2016, 08:30:25 AM »
midget,

I volunteer my letter/number stamp sets for labeling the torque plate.

You supply the BFH.   And the beer . . . . . . .   :-D

I'm thinking that some sort of steel "spacers" will be required to use the ARP stud kit with the plate.    I think that they will need to be fitted above the plate to compensate for the "grip length" of the studs.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

Correct, and I've got both the number stamps and the BFH. 

And some sausage smoke infused Bock made specially in small batches for Gene's Sausage shop in Lincoln Square.

It's like bangers and mash in a bottle without the gravy.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5579 on: February 17, 2016, 09:00:49 AM »
Just to add to the straying that is common in this thread....

One of our local breweries made a bacon beer for bacon fest last year.... not really a crowd favorite...  :|

OK back to business... fitting the new 61-135 bullet into the 61-99 chamber...  :-D
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.