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Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 2231299 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5190 on: July 09, 2015, 08:55:06 AM »
Any chance of scaring up some O/S O.D. valves from REC?   2 each minimum?

 :cheers:
Flowbeeboy

What have we got for an overall length and stem diameter on these?  I'm thinking there might be a common HP Motorcycle piece available stateside for testing purposes.

 :roll:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5191 on: July 09, 2015, 08:57:29 AM »
 :cheers:

Thanks for posting the details
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5192 on: July 09, 2015, 09:03:21 AM »
Any chance of scaring up some O/S O.D. valves from REC?   2 each minimum?

 :cheers:
Flowbeeboy

What have we got for an overall length and stem diameter on these?  I'm thinking there might be a common HP Motorcycle piece available stateside for testing purposes.

 :roll:

I'll dig through my REC catalog for dimensions as soon as I'm out of "Red Queen Hell".

 :cheers:
Slavetothekitchenredoboy
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"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5193 on: July 09, 2015, 02:58:28 PM »
Any chance of scaring up some O/S O.D. valves from REC?   2 each minimum?

 :cheers:
Flowbeeboy

What have we got for an overall length and stem diameter on these?  I'm thinking there might be a common HP Motorcycle piece available stateside for testing purposes.

 :roll:

midget,

From my old REC Catalog:

REC 739 Inlet
1.161" head dia.
3.528" O/A length
.235" stem dia
single bull lock keeper groove


REC 740 Exhaust
1.023" head dia.
3.545" O/A length
.235" stem dia
single bull lock keeper groove

These are ~ 2mm larger in diameter than the stock valves and are the maximum size that the existing valve seats can accommodate.   They probably require "Colisbro" or some other type of bronze valve guide if the valve stems are uncoated.   If the valve stems are chrome plated, the stock cast iron guides can be used if the clearances are OK.

And hey, I don't just answer my phone for "anybody", ya know?    It could be one of my asswipe brothers callin' . . . . . . . .

 :cheers:
Flowbeeboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5194 on: July 09, 2015, 03:55:32 PM »
midget,

"Wiggle Pin" has just e-mailed me the print for Rover adaptor, Ver 1.0, as a pdf.

I forwarded it to you as I do not have the time today to convert it to a jpeg, or etc, that can be posted for viewing without downloading.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5195 on: July 11, 2015, 06:51:11 AM »
Insert Tab 'K' into Slot 'MG'

midget,

The start of the process, courtesy of Wiggle Pin . . . . . . . .





Next step is to ghost in the 'A' series transmission mounting pattern on a different CAD layer.     1/2" thickness is going to be the minimum thickness for the adaptor plate, because of the need to use some metric flat head socket cap screws for the fasteners.     Probably want to use 6061T-6 aluminum tooling plate for the adaptor.

Once everything is laid out, a mockup adaptor made out of 1/2" plywood or MDF will allow an "offer up", into the car.    Layover angle, or lack thereof, can be assessed at that time.   Layover is going to be dictated by space available for various items, injectors/inlet manifold and exhaust headers the most critical.      The wood mockup is a cheap and easy way to research alternative layouts if required.

On another positive note, the starter fitment looks like it will be relatively straightforward using the existing bits.

 :cheers:
Backfromhawaiiboy

Well, while the midget is off fulfilling his Rock & Roll Fantasies, I guess I need to get this up and posted for the plethora of humanity wanting to use a Rover 'K' to power their race cars . . . . . . . .  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

Insert Tab 'K' into Slot 'MG', part deux . . . . .

From the concerted efforts of "Wiggle Pin",  aka Mike Hart of Deerfield Engineering



Thanks Mike, for all your hard work on this "crime against humanity" . . . . . .   :roll:

Ya know, this might actually work . . . . . . .

Hey, yeah you Rock & Roll boy, when can we offer up the alloy lump into that little green chrysalis you fold yourself into?   :-D

 :cheers: :dhorse: :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5196 on: July 11, 2015, 10:57:52 AM »
This one print will decimate an entire cottage industry of Brits making cast bellhousings for T9 transmission adapters behind the K series engines going into Spridgets.

This will teach 'em not to be so stingy with their sponsorship programs.   :evil:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5197 on: July 11, 2015, 01:44:05 PM »
I can't get the complete drawing to show on my screen but I hope that your tolerance block calls for +or- .005 on all of the decimal dimensions or you may  become a member of "The Brother Hood of Accumulated Errors" . Making your adapter plate on a mill with DRO should easily make all of the dimension withing .005. Making it on a CNC with a tool changer would be +or- .001 and the programming would probably take longer than making the part.  I do like your dimensioning  method, everything off of the center which is the most important point.

Rex
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Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5198 on: July 11, 2015, 05:38:24 PM »
Actually, the drawing looks to be only semi-finished.  There are a number of undefined and poorly defined features and what appears to be a drafting error.   And, as Rex has noted, no indication of tolerances. 
In contrast to Rex’s liking of the centerline datum (which is only the center of a clearance circle--not a very important feature) using a datum that is floating somewhere in mid-air is liable to be hard to work with or reference if needed.  Plus, the starter cutout makes it really dubious that the lateral centerline could be re-established.  If it gets made and things don’t quite fit, where do you start measuring from--air?

Offline hotrod

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5199 on: July 11, 2015, 06:45:19 PM »
Normal engineering practice would be to use half the smallest significant digit as the tolerance for location if it is not otherwise specified (ie .005 +/-)
There should be notes on diameter tolerance for the holes, bolt clearance and dowel pin fit clearance requirements are very different.

The center point is good for initial layout since all positional coordinates are referenced off of a single point. It would be helpful if the radial distance from that center point to each hole was specified (allows you to do a manual layout with scribe, ruler and dividers as a double check on the orthogonal coordinates, for each hole.
I really like having two methods of locating a hole on a trial piece like this as it tends to double check things for you. If you are off one on one of the coordinates you have no easy way to check the position but a radial distance from the center point would give you a quick easy double check.

Good job on a first cut. Piece of plywood to do a physical check then tweak and modify dimensions as necessary.

The center point can be preserved several ways, you can only cut the circle as the last step after you have verified the various hole positions (especially since it is not a critical locating surface)

You can also derive it by relative dimensions from the other holes the vertical center line is defined by the center of the bottom center hole and the distance between the top two holes, and the horizontal center line is defined by a 0.44 offset down from the line between the two horizontal (near center holes)

For layout purposes center to center distances between widely separated holes across the plate could also augment or replace radial distances from the center point for layout purposes.
Careful use of scribe dykum blue and dividers can get you very close to digital accuracy if you take your time and double check.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 06:48:00 PM by hotrod »

Offline manta22

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5200 on: July 11, 2015, 07:03:44 PM »
I think there was a dimensional standard adopted years ago- ANSI Y14.5- that covered this. Not everyone is familiar with it but I'll bet the CAD/CAM people are.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5201 on: July 11, 2015, 07:35:06 PM »
If the outside contour and/or center diameter are machined 0-0 is easy to find. Location of center diameter to dowel holes is what is important to reinstalling the plate back in
the same position if "adjustments" are required. BTW the drawing looks good to me.

Offline jdincau

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5202 on: July 11, 2015, 07:42:40 PM »
That's what's nice about a CAD model. You can make the paper look any way you want. Change the number of decimal places shown, reference datums etc. You can always go back and dimension a new feature relative to any of the old ones.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5203 on: July 11, 2015, 08:30:57 PM »
It's my understanding that Wigglepin installed both the block and the bellhousing in his CNC mill and created the drawing from coordinates based on the centerline of both items.

These may need to be adjusted on axis to each other if we do some sort of layover of the block.

I am seeing a hole missing a "y" coordinate.  As to the tolerences - yes, I'm not seeing a reference.

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #5204 on: July 11, 2015, 08:34:39 PM »
They're all 2 places. That just about makes them "clearance" holes, dudn it?  :-D Wayno