Milwaukee Midget

[fordboy628]

midget,

Prior to align honing, need to know if new notches are needed to fit different upper bearings on #1 & #5.

 
F/B

[fordboy628]

midget,

Block housing bore dimensions:   2.0307" - 2.0315"

Does Mel have a mandrel for this diameter?

 
F/B

[fordboy628]

midget,

Need to start thinking about rod bearings and rod journal sizes.

Mahle has bearings for Rover 1.8L in racing VP2 material, but not for Rover 1.4L

How's this for irony?   Mahle has VP2 bearings for BMC 'A' series journals (1.750" diameter).   Falls between 1.4L and 1.8L Rover for size, so a possiblility, and we know they work . . . . . . .
 
F/B

[Milwaukee Midget]

Fordboy -

Next time you're out in the garage, could you take an overall thickness measurement of the head?  I'm trying to hunt down the spec for that.

Thanks for your industrious labor on this!

Chris

Found it - 118.75 mm minimum head height.

[fordboy628]

Taken from www.mgfcar.de/hgf/   bulletin:

The K-Series Engine head gasket failure.

Most important prevention terms against the so called HGF:

- Check before you order any coolant system works whether your workshop knows what to notice immediately. Coolant Bleed Instructions

- Take care on the coolant level in the expansion tank, special after all works at the coolant system
 (- Retrofit the 2005 introduced coolant level sensor and new expansion bottle)

- Never run the cold engine above 3000 revs until you have got 90° Oil Temperature on the dial

- Take care on the coolant cap condition, but don't over tighten the cap

- Never fill the expansion tank above 1 cm over the seam lead

- Never park the car just with a hot engine after a hot ride but let it cool down to 100° Oil temperature before you shut down the engine.

- old MGF 120bhp with plastic manifold must get in the green colored inlet manifold gasket to prevent the engine from coolant loss.

- Take care on the regular change sequence for cam belt AND the cam belt tensioner (60k miles or 5 years, whatever happens first)

- MGF until MGTF only, upgrade the under bonnet fuses for the radiator fan and A/C fan (if installed) ). (15Amp to 20Amp)

- MGF /TF before VIN 4D632424, get the new design coolant header tank with sensor to your coolant system

- MGF / TF before VIN 4D620xx get in the pressure relief thermostat (PRT) see alternative at Dave M. or here
- and if it has happened, get in the new design MLS head gasket with additional black shim and new oil rail
- check whether the cylinder liners have the correct proud of approx +0.1 mm each   ~.004"   F/B

Words for the wise . . . . .  as the current cylinders have nowhere near this amount of projection . . . . .

I'm going to design a positive recirculation/bleed cooling system so these issues are corrected when the engine is installed in the Milwaukee Midget . . . . .
 
Fordboy

[Stan Back]

As a stocker, it sounds like a real reliable piece of shitt.

I always wish you two the best.  You may need more than ever for this stack of pancakes.

[Milwaukee Midget]

As a stocker, it sounds like a real reliable piece of shitt.

I always wish you two the best.  You may need more than ever for this stack of pancakes.

Stan, I know you want to keep that grumpy face for the rest of the world, but we all know you're actually a sweetheart.

Here's the deal on the K.

When Nanjing took over the assets of MG, they immediately went to work on the K series engine.  There was enough "right' about it that they didn't deem a "clean sheet" strategy necessary to correct the problems.

Nanjing gave the engineers at MG in Longbridge a budget - something they rarely saw out of Rover - and they made changes to the oil rail and the head gasket, and while they were at it, they set it up for a knock sensor to meet European emissions standards, and rechristened it the "N" series.

All critical replacement parts reengineered by MG will fit the K. 

How reliable are they in racing applications?

Last year, MG took the British Touring Car Championship manufacturers championship, beating Honda, Vauxhall, BMW, Ford, Audi and Mercedes.

If I learned nothing else working on the A-Series, it was that careful consideration of each and every component - from beginning to end - is key to making a combination work well and work reliably.  I owe Mark a lot for guiding me down that path, and the lessons weren't wasted on me.  I'm going into this build wiser and more patiently than I did with the A.

And we're moving forward.

Friday, I stopped in Plymouth, Michigan, and dropped off the K crank for Greg Rody to use as a mock-up for the 1 liter.

He ordered the steel yesterday.

We're reloading.

[4-barrel Mike]

Stan, I know you want to keep that grumpy face for the rest of the world, but we all know you're actually a sweetheart.

Chris, you were probably too busy getting inspected, but I'm sure I saw a smile on his face while he was discussing roadsters after I introduced him to Marty Strode, who was sitting just east of the Midget in the casino parking lot.

Or maybe it was the beer you gave him.   

Mike

[Milwaukee Midget]

Okay, I've been doing some rod shopping.  I always like to check eBay, because every now and then, you stumble across a deal.

Looking for Audi Quattro rods - a possibility for the combination - but when I saw this in his ad, I crossed the dealer off of the list . . .



http://stores.ebay.com/MaXpeedingRods-com?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[fordboy628]

As a stocker, it sounds like a real reliable piece of shitt.

I always wish you two the best.  You may need more than ever for this stack of pancakes.

Well, it's a unique piece of construction, that's for sure.    But as I said, I dunno, maybe 250 pages ago, every engine has something that needs extra attention paid to it, even purpose designed race engines.

There are a lot of motorcycle engines out there that use a "sandwich" type construction.    Properly built up and maintained, they are reasonably reliable.    That is all anybody can ask for.

Stan, I know you want to keep that grumpy face for the rest of the world, but we all know you're actually a sweetheart.

Here's the deal on the K.

When Nanjing took over the assets of MG, they immediately went to work on the K series engine.  There was enough "right' about it that they didn't deem a "clean sheet" strategy necessary to correct the problems.

Nanjing gave the engineers at MG in Longbridge a budget - something they rarely saw out of Rover - and they made changes to the oil rail and the head gasket, and while they were at it, they set it up for a knock sensor to meet European emissions standards, and rechristened it the "N" series.

All critical replacement parts reengineered by MG will fit the K. 

How reliable are they in racing applications?

Last year, MG took the British Touring Car Championship manufacturers championship, beating Honda, Vauxhall, BMW, Ford, Audi and Mercedes.

If I learned nothing else working on the A-Series, it was that careful consideration of each and every component - from beginning to end - is key to making a combination work well and work reliably.  I owe Mark a lot for guiding me down that path, and the lessons weren't wasted on me.  I'm going into this build wiser and more patiently than I did with the A.

And we're moving forward.

Friday, I stopped in Plymouth, Michigan, and dropped off the K crank for Greg Rody to use as a mock-up for the 1 liter.

He ordered the steel yesterday.

We're reloading.

Thanks for the kind words Chris.     But I can't teach anybody anything, the pupil needs to "want to learn".
 
I've been around racing a looong time, and have machined/built/designed/tested hundreds of race engines.     I've learned a bit on each one, and from every engine family I've added to my "Curriculum Vitae".     So I'd like to think that my years of experience and insight add something tangible into this "engine equation".

And the real trick is:   To accomplish "development" from sound engineering and testing, rather than from trial and error.    Don't get me wrong, both ways work.    Method one is usually takes a bit longer but ends up cheaper, in the long run.    And method two make be quicker initially, but the broken parts and mistakes typically set the program back.   And I think I've mentioned once or twice that I prefer sensible choices driven by data, rather than crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.    I just don't have that kind of time for that development method anymore.    I think we can achieve the bhp goal for the Milwaukee Midget, Ver 3.0, in a reasonable time frame and at a reasonable cost.    The "Trick" is to: "Stop doing Stupid Sh**".     I think we can do that.

The Rover is going to be my last "big project".    I turn 65 next year, and after Speed Week 2016 or World of Speed 2016, I'm going to fade out onto a trout stream or bass lake somewhere and just fly fish until . . . . . whatever comes next . . . . .

 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

Fordboy -

Next time you're out in the garage, could you take an overall thickness measurement of the head?  I'm trying to hunt down the spec for that.

Thanks for your industrious labor on this!

Chris

Found it - 118.75 mm minimum head height.

midget,

Average cylinder head overall thickness is 4.672"   (118.67mm) right now.

I'm uncertain if the head has been milled before, although one would presume so based on the measurements.    And it appears it requires a skim to "flatten it out" again.

Are you certain about the 118.75mm?
 
Fordboy

[Milwaukee Midget]

I'm uncertain if the head has been milled before, although one would presume so based on the measurements.    And it appears it requires a skim to "flatten it out" again.

Are you certain about the 118.75mm?
 
Fordboy

Second hand info from a forum quoting the factory manual - but seeing as this one had been apart before, the "head saver" shim was likely utilized.

I'm not too worried about it.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=97287&page=3

[fordboy628]

Rover Cylinder Head, first look . . . .

midget,

I did a measurement of combustion chamber volume just to be able to plug some early numbers in.    A couple of things became apparent:

A)   The spark plug recesses are too small for regular 3/4" reach regular plugs.   This bad boy requires 'C' series "peanut plugs" with a 5/8" hex body, so C55 or C57 or
      the equivalent is going to be the plug of choice.    Regular 13/16" plugs and sockets will not fit.

2)   Measured with a C55 and the stock valves (intakes have some dish) the chamber volume is a whoppin' 29.5cc's  

d)   At a target static compression ratio of 13.5/1 that requires a combustion volume of:   cylinder cc's/(target C/R -1)   so,   250cc's/12.5 = 20cc's         YIPES!!  
      The piston dome volume will need to be +9.5cc's + head gasket volume of (?) + crevice volume of (?) - any skim volume (?) - any volume gained from flat int valves (?)





Just checked cyl #3.   No point in checking the others yet.

You will need to consult your piston mfg about the maximum dome volume they can build onto the top of a 75.5mm slug.

I'm going to plug some numbers into my copy of Compression Ratio Calculator to generate some precise data in the next day or so.
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

DUH!!       The above does not take in to consideration any cc gain from seat grinding/cutting, etc . . . . . .

I'm just going to start drinkin' early today . . . . . .
 
F/B

[fordboy628]

midget,

I was talking to T & T, and they do NOT have an align hone mandrel in the size to fit the Rover.

Hope Mel does.
 
Fordboy