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Author Topic: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas  (Read 82356 times)

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Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #360 on: September 21, 2017, 10:26:32 AM »
One last word on this build project; if you can swing it, book time in the Darko Technologies wind tunnel. It will reveal things you had no idea existed and will give you a faster, safer and more stable race car if you heed the data. I would have bet money that my Cp and Cg relationship was good but it turned out not to be the case. The tunnel confirmed what was experienced driving the car and how to correct the problem. Woody can do the same thing with CFD and I was going that direction but Darko was more convenient after WoS.

John

Offline tauruck

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #361 on: September 22, 2017, 09:34:41 AM »
Good one John. Keep the faith.

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #362 on: September 27, 2017, 09:56:49 AM »
You guys did a beautiful job on the lakester.  I was checking it out and took a bunch of pictures.  Well thought out and nicely designed.
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  134.606  MPH  8/2017    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 161.896 MPH

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #363 on: September 27, 2017, 12:33:54 PM »
Wicked:

Looks like we had a mutual admiration society going at WOS. I was doing the same thing to your car. I love Ghia's and after seeing how clean and well prepared your car is, I started thinking unforgivable thoughts of finding a road going version. I like the early models best but also like IRS. Still, a clean 1964-67 with a killer engine would keep me smiling for years.

The lakester had a few new car teething problems at WOS. I expected this but you never know what to prepare for. Sequential shifting problems plagued us for three race days preventing us from getting 3, 4 and 5 gears. We were chasing ride height all week and when finally getting it right, something in the badly beaten up belly pan gave way causing the car to spin at 180 mph. Not too much damage but it ended our week (everybody else's too on the short course). One bright spot was the engine. It performed flawlessly all week. Can't wait until next year when we make necessary improvements and see this car run to its potential speed. It may open some eyes.

John
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 01:02:57 PM by ggl205 »

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #364 on: May 20, 2018, 08:42:21 AM »
Bonneville has a way of showing you all weak areas of your car and does so very quickly. We had a horrible time seeing out of the homemade, heat formed windshield and was barely able to pick our way down the track. Just too much distortion in critical viewing areas. The only solution was to put this in the hands of a professional and get it done right. I contacted a recommended company in Los Angeles who has built polycarbonate windshields for a number of LSR racers but never got far with them. Don't understand why but after sending pictures of what I wanted and an enthusiastic exchange of ideas, no future contact was forthcoming even after several attempts to reengage. Bummer. Lyn attended a race event at Phoenix International Raceway and met with a rep from Racing Shields out of Martinsville, Indiana. She explained the problem and they said it should be easy making a windshield to our satisfaction. I used .093" poly and Racing Shields said it should have been a minimum of .125".  Now that I have seen the final product, I can see no distortion in this new shield whatsoever (see image of windshield as viewed from inside the car). Hopefully, one problem solved.


Second, my right rear rocker took a big hit when Lyn got airborne and spun. Both rockers were sent to Ron Mong's shop for redesign and substantial strengthening. I think you will agree, the end result looks like a tank.


Thirdly, Stainless is helping me widen my front axle from 33" to 50". The tunnel said this will be an aero improvement so it will get done. While we are at it, a Watts link will replace the horrible Panard bar that caused us to constantly correct for a self steering car.  

There are other things too. A much, much sturdier belly pan bolted, not Dzus fastened to the chassis, three foot addition to the rear, all the stuff tech wants to see next time through inspection and the list goes on.

John
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 11:55:06 AM by ggl205 »

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #365 on: May 21, 2018, 12:20:55 PM »

Thirdly, Stainless is helping me widen my front axle from 33" to 50". The tunnel said this will be an aero improvement so it will get done.


John
I sincerely appreciate you sharing what you learn. The track width has been a question for me for a while and the primary reason I am building a scale wind tunnel. Now I have your empirical data and eventually some relative scale data to give me a direction. I will let you know the results I get in scale (if anything useful emerges). I am in the US for parts buying work for two weeks and will start on the model when I get home. If nothing else the model can sit on my office desk and remind me why I go to work.
 :cheers:
John
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #366 on: August 03, 2018, 04:49:58 PM »
Stainless cut and welded into the existing axle tube, a 50” long, 1 3/8” OD, .250” wall piece of 4130. This brought the original axle from 33" to 50".  All hardware for the Watts link is made and loosely installed for fit and function purposes. Modifying the original axle to fit a Watts link system was no easy task. Initially, everything wanted to get in the way of everything else. Eventually, a workable solution was found.

After campaigning the car last year, connecting links (camber, caster, toe and trailing) leftovers from the donor Formula Continental seemed a bit light duty for Bonnevillle. They worked OK but for no other reason than a little extra confidence, I built bigger, beefier ones with corresponding increase in rod end size. The wrench hexes don't hurt my feelings either.

John

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #367 on: August 28, 2018, 04:12:51 PM »
The final front axle assembly. Now, on to the rear for a three foot addition.

John

Offline tauruck

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #368 on: August 28, 2018, 05:03:26 PM »
Looks good John. You don't realize how far you've come until you look at how the build started out.
I don't think there's another branch of motorsports where the cars take this long to build.
This is all passion and determination IMO.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline wickedwagens

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #369 on: September 10, 2018, 04:00:41 PM »
Very interesting how the width of the front axle can make such a change.  It will be interesting to see how it works on the salt.  Are you planning to be at WOS?
1968 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
G/CFALT  106.643 MPH  8/2016    G/CGALT  113.131 MPH  9/2016
G/CBGALT  134.606  MPH  8/2017    G/CBFALT  146.715  MPH  8/2017
G/CBGC  158.242  MPH  9/2017   H/CBGC  94.334 MPH  8/2018
H/CPRO  93.383 MPH  8/2018   H/CBFALT  101.282 MPH 9/2018
H/CBGALT  120.591 MPH 9/2018
Top Speed 161.896 MPH

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #370 on: September 23, 2018, 05:13:55 PM »
Very interesting how the width of the front axle can make such a change.  It will be interesting to see how it works on the salt.  Are you planning to be at WOS?

Most of the wider front track aero change came from moving contact point of the inner wake vector farther back along the body. Should help with stability too (I hope).

Couldn't make WOS this year but plan to make it in 2019.

John

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #371 on: January 25, 2019, 06:54:29 PM »
Gravity power?
If so can you skinny up the wheels a little?

I did that with my boys years ago, good fun, especially when the shop is to cold.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #372 on: January 25, 2019, 07:30:27 PM »
Gravity power?
If so can you skinny up the wheels a little?

I did that with my boys years ago, good fun, especially when the shop is to cold.

Rex

Rex, our pack has pretty strict rules for kids cars. Mostly stock parts, un modified other than to take mold flashing off wheels and polish axles. Other than that, about all you can do is reduce weight in the body (still must maintain a 7" long and 1 3/4" wide body) and put remaining weight wherever you want but not to go over 5 ounces, total. And yes, it is fun but tried to get my grandson to participate. Has been a great opportunity to teach a little physics along the way.

John

Offline ggl205

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Re: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas
« Reply #373 on: May 17, 2019, 09:34:28 PM »
Many improvements and outright changes are being made to the lakester before WoS this year. One modification was to strengthen my Strange Engineering spindle mount front axles. A number of people suggested I strengthen these spindles or at least make thicker steering arms for them. I guess some have had cracking and/or flexing problems with these parts. Now, I had these same spindles on my first car for over eight years without issue but this latest round of suggestions to replace them, began to slowly erode my confidence.

So, I called Terry Mourer (Podunk) and asked if he would make new and improved stainless steel kingpins and while he was at it, strengthen the steering arms. What we came up with are two spindles with welded in place, .250" thick, 4130 steering arms and a 4130 rectangular bar triangulating the steering arm to bottom portion of the spindle body. What I ended up with is a very strong weldment and a spindle I have absolute faith in. If you have any concerns with these spindles on your car, give Terry a call.

John
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 02:28:36 PM by ggl205 »