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Author Topic: UK Lakester build G/GL  (Read 13432 times)
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Lemming Motors
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« Reply #150 on: November 09, 2018, 04:50:24 AM »

Thanks Stainless, Sid
My comparisons were more for amusement than design philosophy - I hope its not a grenade.

I do appreciate steering geometry - I was assuming that Stiletto did not have adjustable steering arm angles because 'they' did not think Ackermann was important. I wasn't ignoring it, simply curious, and the comments have reinforced the need for it.

There seems to be a common reference to adding lead at the front for ballast to put some weight on the front wheels and I figured that a bit more chassis would help that. If I am wrong then there could well be a chassis stretch in its future.

I will be testing the potential lemon in the UK on disused airfields and on Pendine Sands (there are a couple of annual events) - yes these will be low speed events with road gearing (ca. 100 - 150 mph) and initially running without body work so if there are handling / driving mistakes I can address them before investing time in the body - which will probably introduce other mistakes. Then run again locally.

After hundreds of hours reading build threads, and responses to my own questions and comments, it is clear that there are several areas that I need to commit to that fall into two very distinct camps and both camps are right as they have results to back up their designs. I don't and unfortunately somewhere along the way have to bite a bullet and build something.

I do sincerely appreciate the advise and the occasional debate it creates and will continue to chip away at the Lakester.
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A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.
ggl205
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G/FL 218.282 since 1995. G/FL record since 1993.




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« Reply #151 on: November 09, 2018, 08:44:24 AM »

Hey Sid:

Lump me in with Neil on the need for Ackerman in a lakester (probably other classes too but we are talking lakesters here). My first G lakester had zero Ackerman as have all other race cars I have had for road racing. Reducing rolling resistance was very important to me and some degree of Ackerman could have possibly aided in this. But straight line stability was more important. I decided to go with what had worked for my road racing cars and built in zero Ackerman and the car handled fine at speeds occationally over 230 mph. My new car has some Ackerman but only because my front wheel diameter is so small. Lastly, I see no downside to having some Ackerman but under wet or lose surface conditions, while having to steer the car a bit more than you like, it could degrade straight line stability by introducing toe-out. I keep an open mind on benefits of Ackerman for my car and would love to engage in an off line discussion on the subject.

John
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 10:42:31 AM by ggl205 » Logged
ronnieroadster
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« Reply #152 on: November 09, 2018, 03:18:44 PM »

  All the above is interesting reading and since my car which started life as a lakester which we eventually converted to rear engine modified roadster has been successful on the salt in poor conditions and as of this year much better conditions some things learned relate to these surface conditions. When we went to the rigid front suspension and increased the wheel base now 141-7/8 inches to meet the class requirements I made sure Ackerman was considered {thanks to Sids guidance} when making the front axle steering arms.  Next big area of attention was the center of pressure and center of gravity for the car.  After many days working with the car on scales as it would sit at the starting line ready to make a pass the final CP/CG numbers were surprising front axle to rear axle weight in the car is close rear axle weight is only 150 pounds higher than the front.  Traction on the salt being a concern I was hesitant to run the car with the weight difference needed using the CP/CG calculations.  However on last years poor surface the car was sideways at 209 MPH and with very little effort easy to control it did not spin around Im sure if the CP/CG was not part of this build the car would have gone around in circles and who knows what else might have happened. On those poor conditions my son and I were able to get our Red hats.  My suggestion is to pay attention to the CP/CG do not be concerned with how much weight is on the front axle {your going to be adding a lot} locate the front axle where its safe and easier to fell where your going I would rethink its present location.
 Good luck.
    Ronnieroadster
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 05:43:19 PM by ronnieroadster » Logged

Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
Lemming Motors
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« Reply #153 on: November 12, 2018, 11:07:27 AM »

Thanks RonnieRoadster. That is one quick flathead!

When you refer to the rigid front axle do you mean a hot rod gasser style tube axle instead of independent front suspension or do you mean no front suspension at all?

The front axle location is something that has kept me up at night for a very long time and I have introduced to the thread recently to solicit feedback. As a result of the comments I am reworking my brain a little and tweaking some of the decisions.

I will have a gasser style straight tube axle, 4 bars and coil overs activated by push rods. The steering will almost certainly be a slow rack attached to the axle and the column in a much flatter plane than originally conceived. To accommodate the column will necessitate moving the front axle forward 12- 18"  shocked

John
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A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.
ronnieroadster
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« Reply #154 on: November 12, 2018, 03:23:01 PM »

Thanks RonnieRoadster. That is one quick flathead!

When you refer to the rigid front axle do you mean a hot rod gasser style tube axle instead of independent front suspension or do you mean no front suspension at all?

The front axle location is something that has kept me up at night for a very long time and I have introduced to the thread recently to solicit feedback. As a result of the comments I am reworking my brain a little and tweaking some of the decisions.

I will have a gasser style straight tube axle, 4 bars and coil overs activated by push rods. The steering will almost certainly be a slow rack attached to the axle and the column in a much flatter plane than originally conceived. To accommodate the column will necessitate moving the front axle forward 12- 18"  shocked

John


   

   Hi John
     Oh the joy of building a race car from the ground up our brains will always be working overtime thinking the numerous steps needed.  Originally I had a suspension using an original Ford 1937 tube axle with the standard type Ford cross spring, hair pin radius rods and tube shocks overall identical to what i use on my Hot Rods. I wanted my race car to be a more traditional build so using the Ford design and parts worked well up to the 180 MPH range then i began to get crazy about going faster thus the front axle change. So part of the improvements on the race car we redesigned the front axle to a solid configuration no suspension at all I must add Sid was a big help in guiding me on the potential of the changes. I found whether running the car on the salt or the runways events held in our area the lack of front suspension was not an issue.  This allowed me to better balance the car with the room now available where the front spring and shock mounts were once located. Also an added bonus is the reduced amount of stuff hanging in the wind resulting in less frontal drag.
 Ronnieroadster
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Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
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« Reply #155 on: November 15, 2018, 01:47:09 PM »

Ron has been implementing some of my suggestions over the last three years that has given them a bunch more speed with no hp increase. I've been doing this for other salt racers for 30 years now with everything from door cars to streamliners with good results but my sound advice is just that, advise! What you do with it is totally up to you.
You can see so many race cars on the salt with poorly set up front ends & that can mean the difference between correcting it or crashing it if it gets a little out of shape & the biggest mistake is scrub radius, take a look next time you're there.
We run on a surface that is slick & usually rough so blacktop geometry is undesirable & if you find yourself going into turn one at Bonneville, you just became a passenger.
  Sid.
   
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