Author Topic: Mid- Engine Modified Sports  (Read 784740 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1425 on: July 26, 2017, 09:48:04 AM »
Neil, my concern.... if you have a backfire.... will you then have unconfined fuel around your engine?
Or give yourself a very lean condition that will kill your motor?

I think your plugs need to be confined, can you put a strap over all of them?
Maybe make aluminum plugs with an oring, and a blind threaded hole to strap them down like a fuel rail would on injectors. 
Don't remember if you had a lathe....

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1426 on: July 26, 2017, 11:20:13 AM »
Stainless;

That's the reason I removed the injectors; they were held in only by their O-rings' friction. I'll try to think of a way to further retain the plugs without ruining the injector bung bores. I'd like to be able to convert it back to EFI some day.

No, I don't have a lathe. The extent of my "machine tools" is a drill press. And assorted hand tools.  :-P

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1427 on: July 26, 2017, 11:41:38 AM »
Stainless;

That's the reason I removed the injectors; they were held in only by their O-rings' friction. I'll try to think of a way to further retain the plugs without ruining the injector bung bores. I'd like to be able to convert it back to EFI some day.

No, I don't have a lathe. The extent of my "machine tools" is a drill press. And assorted hand tools.  :-P

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Agree with Stainless. A strap across the plugs should be relatively easy to do. Injectors whether with fuel rail or individual hose supply are held down. If you were using a fuel rail there are usually a couple of straps somewhere that bolt to the manifold to hold in place. Injector bungs are usually 14mm IIRC so I am a bit surprised at the "few thou larger than 5/8 but that is neither here nor there.
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
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  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1428 on: July 26, 2017, 03:37:03 PM »
The injectors are normally held in by the fuel rail. When we weld in bungs for injectors we often have to put something at either end with which to anchor the fuel rail. Don't do anything to the bores where the injectors go. If you destroy the bore you'll probably destroy the ability to seal with the o-ring on the injector.

Pete

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1429 on: July 26, 2017, 04:40:49 PM »
There are different injectors with varying diameters, these are just a hair over 5/8". That is the larger diameter not the smaller diameter at the nose. I don't know who the manufacturer is. There are no brand markings.

Whoever welded on the EFI bungs didn't think that far ahead for a fuel rail- there is only one threaded boss that could be used for a hold-down. I'll think of something.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1430 on: July 26, 2017, 06:20:56 PM »
I wouldn't be blaming the installer of the bungs, he only did what the customer asked him to. It's very possible that they figured on using a bracket held down by the manifold bolts to hold down the fuel rails. It takes very little force to anchor the fuel rail.

Pete

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1431 on: July 26, 2017, 07:20:47 PM »
Neil- often (my experience) the injectors do not have a mfg name on them. Usually there is a number of some sort. Many are copies of the original Bosch and are EV1, EV6 or EV14 designs. The electrical connector also varies with 2 types being usual. Most have O-ring to seal both the top and bottom and as I mentioned, 14mm orings are common but there may be others. Do you have injectors on hand?

Lots of folks will argue interminably about which will make more power- Injection (CF or EFI) vs a good carb. For LSR a carb is hard to beat though a good CF manifold may help flow distribution and clearly works well. Peak power and who cares about idle, mileage or part throttle. For emissions, mileage and etc features, can't beat EFI for sure. When comparing your situation where there are bungs in a carb manifold the airflow differences and port length differences may be tuned out or improved with EFI assuming you have the capability in the box to tune individual cylinders- and 8 O2 sensors on the dyno to do so effectively. Your engine sounds seriously healthy and I know this is your "test the car" engine with improvements planned. I wouldn't be too hasty to spend the time and money going to EFI. You will spend a ton (don't ask how I know that :) ) and may not make a real improvement. If you do decide to go that route, I personally wouldn't use that manifold but go to an IR setup to improve fuel/air distribution. As my brothers Latin teacher was fond of saying: "totus porkus aout noulis" (somehow I never took Latin so don't jump on me for the spelling which is undoubtedly wrong). It means "whole hog or nuthin' "  :cheers: :cheers:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1432 on: July 26, 2017, 08:47:07 PM »
Pete; Using manifold bolts is something that I had not considered- thanks.

Jack; These injectors may be Bosh- I'm not sure. They are 42 lb injectors. I don't plan to put EFI in this engine but it is a possibility for my street Mirage, a 350 SBC that presently has a Holley 650 and hydraulic lifters. I haven't had it fully apart so I don't know what cam Manta Cars put in it. It is a late '70s build with something non-stock.

If I do replace the 850DP on the race car I would go back to the Crower mechanical injection that I had on it before.
I really appreciate the advice and comments that I receive from you folks here on the Forum.

Does Bill Lattin speak lattin?   :-D :-D :-D

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1433 on: July 28, 2017, 12:08:39 AM »

Does Bill Lattin speak lattin?   :-D :-D :-D


I'd ask a priest to translate that invoice . . .

I know - it's not Friday yet.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1434 on: July 30, 2017, 09:25:11 PM »
I picked up my new trailer on Saturday and brought it home. It is a Jim-Glo 18' aluminum tilt-bed trailer. Not the best for towing on salt but it will get a very serious wash-down after Speed Week. I chose this trailer because it can load cars with a low ground clearance. The bed tilts to an 8.5 degree "ramp" angle (there are no ramps needed) so the problem with scraping the chassis on the trailer or ramps is eliminated.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wheelrdealer

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1435 on: July 30, 2017, 09:39:05 PM »
Nice

BR
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Offline tauruck

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1436 on: July 31, 2017, 04:36:15 AM »
Yes, nice Neil. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1437 on: July 31, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »
Actually the AL will probably hold up better than steel.  The AL rails on our trailer have outlived 1 trailer and working on the second...
 :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1438 on: July 31, 2017, 11:57:11 AM »
That is encouraging, Stainless. This trailer was expensive so I want to take good care of it!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1439 on: July 31, 2017, 02:52:39 PM »
5000 series aluminum is very resistant to salt water and readily fabricated. It's commonly used in boat hulls and trailers. The only places to watch are where it interacts with steel.

Pete