Author Topic: Mid- Engine Modified Sports  (Read 787063 times)

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Offline bvillercr

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1590 on: February 21, 2019, 01:18:07 AM »
I have been using copper kote for almost 15 years now on MLS head gaskets. I have never had one leak coolant or oil.

Brake clean takes the stuff right off.

I would be hesitant to use anything silicone related on a head gasket, that stuff squishes out, gets in oil and water passages and hardens up. Prior to copper kote I was using hylomar, and now a permatex brush on non hardening sealant. But never rtv.the only spot it's good for is the oil pan corners, and China walls on the intake manifold.

We've been using the red RTV high temp silicone for 30 years without any problems.  Hard to switch products, sounds like your copper kote is good stuff

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1591 on: February 21, 2019, 02:14:08 PM »
Niel,
I am like you, I have used red RTV on head gaskets for years, the trick is the coating of the RTV must be very thin, I usually run a very small line of the stuff around things that I think need to be sealed, i.e. water and oil passages, and then use my fingers to "rub" the RTV down to a very thin coating. Let is set for a few minutes and then assemble. With head gaskets we are only trying to fill the very small possible irregularities between two machined surfaces so the coating, copper plate or red RTV needs to be thin. To many people just gubber  on a big bead of RTV and then when at assembly it comes out the sides, down the water and oil passages and causes havoc. In this case the less you put on the better.

At Interscope we had many problems with exhaust header gaskets blowing out, both NA and turbo engines, we finally went to using just the high temp red RTV and never had a problem again. We did surface grind the header flanges so they were flat and true.

Rex
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Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1592 on: February 23, 2019, 07:13:41 PM »
I put the block on an engine stand and cleaned the oil passages, main bearing bores, and cylinder liners with brushes and then sprayed them with brake cleaner. I also brushed & sprayed the lifter bores. I wiped the liners with lintless wipers after spraying them with brake cleaner and they are now as clean as I can get them. A light spray of WD-40 was the last step, just to prevent any rust. When the main bearing seals arrive (Monday or Tuesday) I will install them and the main bearings so that I can drop the crank in. I did a trial fit on the Milodon copper head gaskets and they look fine. It was not easy getting them out of the skin pack without bending them. They are really SOFT!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1593 on: February 24, 2019, 07:03:31 PM »
A bit more progress today- I re- installed the fuel pump block- off plate, cleaned the oil pump thoroughly, removed the main cap studs, cleaned them and re- installed all but the angled studs. I installed the upper main bearing, applied some Red Line assembly lube, and laid thee crank into place. Maybe the rear main seal & oil pan seals will arrive tomorrow and I can put the lower main bearings in place and torque down the main bearing caps.

The King XP bearings are unusual, their bearing surfaces are flat black.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline tauruck

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1594 on: February 24, 2019, 10:57:19 PM »
All looks good now Neil. Great looking!!!!!.
Good luck on the rest.👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1595 on: February 25, 2019, 08:05:18 AM »
Bearings are coated, Neil.
Jack Iliff
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Offline floydjer

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1596 on: February 25, 2019, 08:44:40 AM »
Just rambling here....I wonder if a clever type could rig -up a pump that attached to the oil pump mount and flush the oil passages with solvent/oil. Just a thought.
I`d never advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone...But they work for me.

Offline handyguy

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1597 on: February 25, 2019, 09:46:05 AM »
I did my own rod bearings / cam bushings with CERAKOTE MICRO SLICK ..  Also did CERAMIC coating on piston tops , valve tops and combustion chamber (aluminum head)  and PISTON COAT on sides .. I have the equipment for the process ..  I am upgrading to turbo , port injection and alcohol this year .   STEVE

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1598 on: February 25, 2019, 01:11:54 PM »
The pistons are ceramic coated on the Triumph.  One objective is to reduce heat transfer down the rods to the big ends.  This will help to prevent oil thinning there due to high temps.

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1599 on: February 25, 2019, 05:23:11 PM »
WW;

My Cosworth piston crowns are also ceramic coated.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline manta22

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1600 on: February 26, 2019, 06:23:52 PM »
The temperature is back up to 70F, the sun is shining, I'm outside cleaning roller lifters in Xylene, listening to Duke Ellington- "Take the A-Train". Does it get any better than this?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1601 on: February 27, 2019, 04:42:23 AM »
Niel,
I am like you, I have used red RTV on head gaskets for years, the trick is the coating of the RTV must be very thin, I usually run a very small line of the stuff around things that I think need to be sealed, i.e. water and oil passages, and then use my fingers to "rub" the RTV down to a very thin coating. Let is set for a few minutes and then assemble. With head gaskets we are only trying to fill the very small possible irregularities between two machined surfaces so the coating, copper plate or red RTV needs to be thin. To many people just gubber  on a big bead of RTV and then when at assembly it comes out the sides, down the water and oil passages and causes havoc. In this case the less you put on the better.

At Interscope we had many problems with exhaust header gaskets blowing out, both NA and turbo engines, we finally went to using just the high temp red RTV and never had a problem again. We did surface grind the header flanges so they were flat and true.

Rex

Neil and Rex, et all,

A couple of thoughts about these 2 subjects based on my long experience engineering racing engines:

Using RTV on head gaskets should resolve some "finicky" sealing issues, if the head gasket is "uncoated" or has a coating that is compatible with RTV.    I  also have used the "thin schmear" method, with success.    But there are some gasket coatings that are not compatible with silicone based products.    Check with the gasket mfg's tech department if it does not seem to work.   It is definitely required to allow adequate time for the RTV to set up, before exposing it to water, oil, or pressure.   You simply need to allow adequate time for the stuff to "glue/bond" the parts together.    Because uncured silicone sealer is one of the best lubricants on the planet . . . . .

I also have used "red" RTV as a substitute for header gaskets.    The stuff was invented to bond ceramic heat shield "tiles" to the Space Shuttle, so it is VERY heat resistant.   Since the heat of the exhaust "cures" the stuff quickly, as long as the mating surfaces are flat, as Rex noted, it can be put into service in short order.    Again, if the surfaces are "wavy", best to let it cure before exposing it to heat and pressure.   For turbo exhaust systems that run very hot in service, a couple of applications have needed to have "beaded",  MLS, stainless steel gaskets installed between components.    These have been 4 cylinder applications with lots of vibration.  Go figure . . . .

Also, once the red stuff has cured on your clothes, it's there forever . . . . .   The fibers of the clothing will fail before that stuff will come off.   Trust me on this.

 :cheers:
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1602 on: February 27, 2019, 10:58:25 AM »
Rex, can you put that sun in a box and ship it up here?

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1603 on: February 27, 2019, 01:58:00 PM »
ww,
I would gladly ship you some sun shine but today is the first day in a week that we have even seen blue sky between the rain clouds. Since Saturday I have had about 8 1/2 inches of rain, the Russian river is way above its' banks and the road into my place is flooded in 3 places. You probably don't need more moisture right now as our rain mixed with your snow would equal "Misery"!!!

Rex
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Offline floydjer

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Re: Mid- Engine Modified Sports
« Reply #1604 on: February 27, 2019, 03:25:26 PM »
1" of rain roughly converts to 10" of snow....So that would be normal here... :cheers:
I`d never advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone...But they work for me.