Athol Graham crash probably not his fault

[4-barrel Mike]

My favorite Heinlein quote: "Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig." 

Mike

[manta22]

And the ever- popular quote "He who...who hee?"
                                           
                                            --Alfred E. Newman

[aircap]

I would be much more concerned about comments made involving living people about current events.

All well and good, Franklin - but your "book learning" is getting in the way of your total lack of experience in the subject you propose to educate us about.

Just post a link if you can, and that will suffice. OK?

[Ratliff]

I would be much more concerned about comments made involving living people about current events.

All well and good, Franklin - but your "book learning" is getting in the way of your total lack of experience in the subject you propose to educate us about.

Just post a link if you can, and that will suffice. OK?

It is perhaps appropriate that we're discussing this in a thread about a man who, having never before built a racecar in his life, became only the second American (and only the fifth driver ever) to go 300 mph.

In October of 1990 I watched Al Teague clock 391 mph through the mile. I can remember when the idea of a single engine rear wheel drive car breaking the Summers brothers record seemed on the same level as breaking the sound barrier. At that same meet, I saw technically ambitious and highly experimental cars, such as the Bruce Crower streamliner and the Herbert-Steen car, built for the wheel-driven record.

I am one of the few people to have in person observed attempts on both the World Land Speed Record and the World Water Speed Record. For many years, I was the last person in the 20th century to have seen attempts on both the WLSR and WWSR.

On the human side, I saw racers who attained the opportunity to make these attempts because they thought bigger than the vast majority of racers, were more innovative, and not intimidated by totally new or seemingly insurmountable problems.

From the watching the WSR project, I learned it is possible to build a foamcore Kevlar/fiberglass sandwich composite cockpit structure that is virtually indestructible. To this day, it mystifies me how 18 years later this technology remains unused and misunderstood in land speed racing.

In the LSR attempt, I watched Art Arfons go 338 mph through the mile using a push/pull lever steering system and 17 inch diameter rear wheels. That was only the second pass Arfons had made with the car. The previous day, having been asked to keep it below 200 mph, Arfons clocked 175 mph and encountered a severe speed wobble. The team thought about it overnight and pumped up the pressure in the front struts for the next run.

I've also seen in action and photographed all the rocket dragsters to set FIA standing start records at Bonneville and El Mirage.

[aircap]

That's observing, not participating - everything you post is history and theory.

Build a car according to the rules, and drive it on the salt in an attempt on a record..... do this, Franklin, and earn respect from those involved in the sport you love so much.

[Peter Jack]

I agree with Aircap Franklin but at the same time I realize that building a project may not fit in your budget. The other option to gain credibility is to become a legitimate valued member of someone else's team.

When I was in my teens, way too many years ago, I was a bit of an "expert" in my own mind especially because I was already fabricating parts for others and setting up and tuning a variety of high performance and race cars. At one point when I was expounding on something someone a few years my senior came up to me and quietly explained to me that I'd be much better off if I learned to shut my mouth and open my ears. That was some of the best advise I ever got and it's got me a lot further than I would have being an "expert" all the time.

If you find a crew position with someone remember that advise. The time will come when your knowledge can contribute to the effort but continued "expert" unsolicited advise will only result in a very short term as a member of the team and your reputation will quickly reach other teams limiting your chances of getting on elsewhere. Remember the way expert breaks down:
     "ex" is a has been
     s"pert" is a drip under pressure
Why not go out and gain some real credibility?

Pete

[salt27]

I think I figured it out!
First the answer is posted, then we are suppost to post the question.
Just like jeoperdy.
Do I win anything?

[Ratliff]

I agree with Aircap Franklin but at the same time I realize that building a project may not fit in your budget. The other option to gain credibility is to become a legitimate valued member of someone else's team.

When I was in my teens, way too many years ago, I was a bit of an "expert" in my own mind especially because I was already fabricating parts for others and setting up and tuning a variety of high performance and race cars. At one point when I was expounding on something someone a few years my senior came up to me and quietly explained to me that I'd be much better off if I learned to shut my mouth and open my ears. That was some of the best advise I ever got and it's got me a lot further than I would have being an "expert" all the time.

If you find a crew position with someone remember that advise. The time will come when your knowledge can contribute to the effort but continued "expert" unsolicited advise will only result in a very short term as a member of the team and your reputation will quickly reach other teams limiting your chances of getting on elsewhere. Remember the way expert breaks down:
     "ex" is a has been
     s"pert" is a drip under pressure
Why not go out and gain some real credibility?

Pete

I'm not an engine expert. Have never ever discussed how to tune an engine for Bonneville.

Going faster than everyone else and setting a ton of records still doesn't get through to many racers.

There are a lot of expert engine tuners running at Bonneville who don't have even a rudimentary knowledge of aerodynamics fundamentals.

That's why you still see dragster style lakesters running at Bonneville and El Mirage that instead of learning from the example of the Nick Arias or Joe Law "Grumpy Old Men" cars still look like they came straight off a dragstrip.

Attached is an artist rendering based on drawings I made in September 1983 for a potential supersonic jet car concept. Looks like I was on the right track.

[Peter Jack]

Ratliff:

I'm going to try this one more time.

I don't pretend to be an engine expert either. The only time I touch any engine adjustments is at the track. I leave engines up to an engine builder who knows a lot more than I about horsepower and how to make it. I build cars and parts and do chassis engineering. Most of us who have worked on cars that go over the 150 mph mark on a regular basis (my background is road race and Indy cars) have a more than casual relationship with aero and the effects it can have on a vehicle.

Look at the last statement in your last post about dragster style lakesters. Maybe you can be of help to one of them to get them headed in what you feel is the right direction, but I can assure you that unless you use a little more tact in your approach than you use on this website you won't last 15 minutes. Applying the principles you feel you know is the way you'll gain credibility with the rest of us.

Please go back and read the advise, then follow it. It will make the lives of you and everyone else you interact with a little easier.

END OF FINAL RANT ON THIS TOPIC!

Pete

[fredvance]

Ditto!!!

[Ratliff]

Ratliff:

I'm going to try this one more time.

I don't pretend to be an engine expert either. The only time I touch any engine adjustments is at the track. I leave engines up to an engine builder who knows a lot more than I about horsepower and how to make it. I build cars and parts and do chassis engineering. Most of us who have worked on cars that go over the 150 mph mark on a regular basis (my background is road race and Indy cars) have a more than casual relationship with aero and the effects it can have on a vehicle.

Look at the last statement in your last post about dragster style lakesters. Maybe you can be of help to one of them to get them headed in what you feel is the right direction, but I can assure you that unless you use a little more tact in your approach than you use on this website you won't last 15 minutes. Applying the principles you feel you know is the way you'll gain credibility with the rest of us.

Please go back and read the advise, then follow it. It will make the lives of you and everyone else you interact with a little easier.

END OF FINAL RANT ON THIS TOPIC!

Pete

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3994.0.html

Something you have to keep in mind about land speed racing is that, with the changes in rules structure from 30 years ago, many racers are running the only car or bike in their class. Since there is much less real competition, there is also much less incentive to innovate.

[PorkPie]

I am one of the few people to have in person observed attempts on both the World Land Speed Record and the World Water Speed Record. For many years, I was the last person in the 20th century to have seen attempts on both the WLSR and WWSR.

[/quote]

How people can be wrong........

[Stainless1]

I am one of the few people to have in person observed attempts on both the World Land Speed Record and the World Water Speed Record. For many years, I was the last person in the 20th century to have seen attempts on both the WLSR and WWSR.

How people can be wrong........

Yep PorkPie, often self-absorbed people feel they are important and become legends in their own mind...  while living vicariously through the actions of others.

[Ratliff]

I am one of the few people to have in person observed attempts on both the World Land Speed Record and the World Water Speed Record. For many years, I was the last person in the 20th century to have seen attempts on both the WLSR and WWSR.

How people can be wrong........
[/quote]

I have been told writer Bill Neely, having been been present at the Craig Arfons attempt on the WWSR, later was present at Breedlove's attempt on the WLSR. That would make Neely the last person to date to have personally witnessed attempts on the world speed record for each medium.

[PorkPie]

where you was in 1978, 1982, 1997, 2001...........