A streamliner configuration no one has tried

[Dean Los Angeles]

Um . . . Ah . . . Yes Mr. Stainless, I did poach the picture from your older post. 

[Ratliff]

Yes, you're missing the fact the front and rear wheels can be offset from the centerline so that they're not aligned, thus still meeting the definition of an automobile.

Rat, did you miss the steering by 2 front wheels part (I know exactly where that rule came from  ).  What you have built is a time only streamliner for scta, maybe the FIA will let you run.... 

Make the rear wheel steerable too, but lock it out during the run so that only the front wheel actually does the steering.

Or do as John Burk suggested and bias the weight toward the front so that the drive wheels can be set far enough forward to also be used for steering.

Rulebooks are a suggestion, not a guide for designing.

[Elmo Rodge]

Where does the propeller go?  Wayno

[dwarner]

"Rulebooks are a suggestion, not a guide for designing."

Correct, and suggestion 4.D suggests that the design be done so that at least two front wheels do the steering. But, you don't race with us so it does not matter in your world. Don't forget to post into the Introduction thread.

DW

[Dean Los Angeles]

You have two wheels side by side in the middle, a single front wheel, and a single rear wheel with the middle wheels being driven. The front and rear wheels could be offset so that they're not on the centerline. This configuration would allow much cleaner aerodynamics on the tail of the body. By balancing the car so that all of the weight is on the middle wheels, with the front and rear wheels just holding the ends of the car off the ground, the car would have a much higher percentage of its weight on the driven wheels than can be attained with a conventional configuration.

A lot depends on the class you are considering. The size of the engine and all of the things that stick out from it determine the smallest cross section. If you are talking a blown big block then you have all the room in the world to put two wheels in the back. Cleaner aerodynamics on the tail is more a function of length and there is no limit on length.

The available tires for high speed dictate the size of the tires used. Putting drive wheels in the middle means that you have to have have body, tires, drive, suspension, frame, and driver all in the same place, and that's a pretty wide structure.

Ron Main's Ecofire - 325 mph in a pretty small package.

[Ratliff]

"Rulebooks are a suggestion, not a guide for designing."

Correct, and suggestion 4.D suggests that the design be done so that at least two front wheels do the steering. But, you don't race with us so it does not matter in your world. Don't forget to post into the Introduction thread.

DW

The rulebook also doesn't have a definition for "front." Is "front" all the way at the leading edge? Or is "front" just some point forward of the mid point of the vehicle?

[Ratliff]

You have two wheels side by side in the middle, a single front wheel, and a single rear wheel with the middle wheels being driven. The front and rear wheels could be offset so that they're not on the centerline. This configuration would allow much cleaner aerodynamics on the tail of the body. By balancing the car so that all of the weight is on the middle wheels, with the front and rear wheels just holding the ends of the car off the ground, the car would have a much higher percentage of its weight on the driven wheels than can be attained with a conventional configuration.

A lot depends on the class you are considering. The size of the engine and all of the things that stick out from it determine the smallest cross section. If you are talking a blown big block then you have all the room in the world to put two wheels in the back. Cleaner aerodynamics on the tail is more a function of length and there is no limit on length.

The available tires for high speed dictate the size of the tires used. Putting drive wheels in the middle means that you have to have have body, tires, drive, suspension, frame, and driver all in the same place, and that's a pretty wide structure.

Ron Main's Ecofire - 325 mph in a pretty small package.

When you look at Ron Main's liner, the rear end aerodynamics would be cleaned up A TON if the drive wheels were at the mid point of the car not the back.

[Ratliff]

"Rulebooks are a suggestion, not a guide for designing."

Correct, and suggestion 4.D suggests that the design be done so that at least two front wheels do the steering. But, you don't race with us so it does not matter in your world. Don't forget to post into the Introduction thread.

DW

The SCTA and FIA definitions of an "automobile" don't say that in addition to the two driven wheels you can't also have a track.

Since the SCTA and FIA definitions of an "automobile" also don't say what percentage of power has to be transmitted through the wheels, Leopold Schmid's concept of setting an "automobile" record with a jet car that uses a paddlewheel in the exhaust stream to drive the rear wheels through spur gears would be just as valid today as it was 48 years ago.

A car with an engine that drove both the wheels and a propeller would also meet the SCTA/FIA definition of an "automobile."

If someone were to build a streamliner with a nonairbreathing gas turbine it would be a simple matter to also feed propellant to a rocket motor in the tail. If the car launched on just the rocket motor then after accelerating for a few seconds switched to pure wheel drive, how would it be classified?

Are there any practical efficient ways of going faster with an unconventional automobile that I missed?

[willieworld]

you might want to read page 15 of the s c t a rulebook   willie

[Ratliff]

you might want to read page 15 of the s c t a rulebook   willie

The SCTA rulebook says they only sanction automobiles. All the different concepts I just described meet the definition of an automobile.

Goldenrod and Challenger 1 weren't purely wheel-driven either. Their headers were configured to recover residual thrust from the exhaust.

[willieworld]

you didnt read page 15 of the rule book    willie  in casse you dont have one   

2.A ENGINES    any internal combustine engine using either a two stroke or four stroke otto cycle or diesel may run in any category --------------------------------------------reaction propulsions engines are prohibited.

you can run pretty much anything you want at an s c t a  event if it will pass tech but if it wont fit into a class you will have to run for time only   no record   

[Jonny Hotnuts]

If a person was to build under FRs design there is no reason why you could not have the required 2 wheels up front for steering (maybe 2 thin wheels very close together) to comply with the steering requirement and still maintain the design idea.

However.....I am sure that if there was the aft wheel (unless it was a swivel caster or other method of compliance) that steering from the front wheel and pivoting on the middle drive wheels would cause the rear wheel to drag side to side in the salt no matter how it was balanced. THis can be shown by holding a pencil in the middle and moving the point side to side, the eraser is how the rear wheel would move, and even if steering was kept at a minimum any inconsistency in the salt during a turn or a hard turn would cause a the rear to drag OR the front wheels to push.If there is not a significant amount of weight on the rear wheel to cause any issues with the lateral movement in the rear....why have it at all.

[Ratliff]

you didnt read page 15 of the rule book    willie  in casse you dont have one   

2.A ENGINES    any internal combustine engine using either a two stroke or four stroke otto cycle or diesel may run in any category --------------------------------------------reaction propulsions engines are prohibited.

you can run pretty much anything you want at an s c t a  event if it will pass tech but if it wont fit into a class you will have to run for time only   no record   

if you're going to ban reaction propulsion then you also have to ban header configurations like the ones on Goldenrod and Challenger 1.

The SCTA has classes for turbine cars. The rulebook doesn't say they have to be airbreathers nor does it say there has to be a direct mechanical connection between the gas generator and the power turbine. Just as Leopold Schmid proposed placing a paddlewheel in the exhaust stream of a jet engine, a paddlewheel could also be placed in the exhaust stream of a rocket engine.

Aside from that, there are no rules prohibiting the installation of propellers on piston engine or turbine wheel driven cars since propellers are not a form of reaction propulsion.

"Reaction propulsion is generally defined as the propulsion of a craft produced by the forward directed forces of a reaction resulting from the rearward discharge from the craft a high-speed stream of matter, most frequently fluid. Jet propulsion and rocket propulsion are included in the definition of reaction propulsion."

"Noun 1. reaction propulsion - propulsion that results from the ejection at high velocity of a mass of gas to which the vehicle reacts with an equal and opposite momentum
jet propulsion - propulsion by means of the discharge of a jet of fluid toward the rear
propulsion - a propelling force
rocket propulsion - reaction propulsion using stored oxygen for combustion; used where there is insufficient atmospheric oxygen"

"reaction engine - WordNet (r) 2.1 (2005) :
  reaction engine
      n 1: a jet or rocket engine based on a form of aerodynamic
           propulsion in which the vehicle emits a high-speed stream
           [syn: reaction-propulsion engine, reaction engine]"

"reaction propulsion
noun
propulsion that results from the ejection at high velocity of a mass of gas to which the vehicle reacts with an equal and opposite momentum
Source: WordNet (r) 2.0"

"Noun: reaction propulsion
Propulsion that results from the ejection at high velocity of a mass of gas to which the vehicle reacts with an equal and opposite momentum
Derived forms: reaction propulsions"

[willieworld]

i havent banned anything--me thinks you should buy and read a rule book  just go to the website  www.scta-bni.org and you can order one   willie

[Ratliff]

i havent banned anything--me thinks you should buy and read a rule book  just go to the website  www.scta-bni.org and you can order one   willie

You as in the rhetorical "you."