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Question: Should motorcycle engines be allowed in all car classes except production
absolutely - 13 (31.7%)
all but vintage - 18 (43.9%)
no - 10 (24.4%)
Total Voters: 39

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Author Topic: moto roadsters  (Read 22988 times)
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RichFox
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« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2008, 09:21:39 AM »

Looks to me that this horse is way to far from the barn to be closing the door now. When the SCTA bumped Offys up one class it made sense. Twin cam four valve race motor had to much of an advantage. Now school teachers drive them and never thing about it. OEM automotive engine. Whats that?  When I go to the grocery store today I'll be driving my  Lark with a SBC in it. But the heads didn't come from GM. Or the crank. None of the valve train. Not the pistons. Or the flywheel or dampner or pan. Not the intake manifold. What is OEM today? Not much of my SBC. A Sesco V8 wouldn't bother me in a roadster. Why should half a Sesco get me upset?
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« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2008, 09:54:04 AM »

This discussion should be over.............................................JD
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« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2008, 12:09:41 AM »

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS, REAL HOT ROD ROADSTER'S HAVE V8'S  . AND IF YOU WHANT TO CREATE YOUR OWN CLASS TO MOTO ROADSTER YOU WILL HAVE MY VOTE .JUST DONT SCREW IT UP FOR THE REST OF US. KEEP THE VINTAGE CLASS VINTAGE. I ALSO WAS BORN A ROADSTER KID. MY FIRST CAR WAS A 32 HI-BOY . I LOVE THE CLASS THE WAY IT IS , I GOT MY 2 CLUB HAT'S AT MUROC , EL-MIRAGE , AND BONNEVILLE IN A VINTAGE CLASS . KEEP THE MOTORCYCLE MOTORS OUT...............


 
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John Noonan
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« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2008, 12:43:17 AM »

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS, REAL HOT ROD ROADSTER'S HAVE V8'S  . AND IF YOU WHANT TO CREATE YOUR OWN CLASS TO MOTO ROADSTER YOU WILL HAVE MY VOTE .JUST DONT SCREW IT UP FOR THE REST OF US. KEEP THE VINTAGE CLASS VINTAGE. I ALSO WAS BORN A ROADSTER KID. MY FIRST CAR WAS A 32 HI-BOY . I LOVE THE CLASS THE WAY IT IS , I GOT MY 2 CLUB HAT'S AT MUROC , EL-MIRAGE , AND BONNEVILLE IN A VINTAGE CLASS . KEEP THE MOTORCYCLE MOTORS OUT...............


 

Mike,

It is too late, the rules allow them and they and the records they have set are here to stay.
Good news is that a car engine can still make more HP and there are not currently any V-8 standard bike engines to compete with so all you habe to do is take any engine that fits in the class and ru faster.
Afterall how many records were set in the last 10-15 years in the roadster classes with V-8 engines in the (H & G classes)

J
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maguromic
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« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2008, 12:51:54 AM »

I am building a vintage roadster with a vintage engine.  Its not a V8 but will run in XO.  Does that make mine not a real vintage car.  I also have a Indy V8 engine that will rev to 11,000 and make lots of power, and monster power with  a turbo that will also go in my car for E class.  Its a V8 so Would you consider that a real hot rod engine.  There is a glut of old F1 engines on the market and its only a matter of time before they show up on the salt.  With their air actuated valves and other things some records will fall.  All you have to do is look at some of the hill climb events to see these motors in action. A $75k Hemi Chevy is surely not vintage, and thats legal to run in AA, so why should their be a ban on motorcycle engines in smaller classes. Mike, I respect your view on what should be in a vintage body and your interpretation of a Hot Rod, and your accomplishments speak for them self. But my interpretation  is a little different on what is a hot rod.   My vote is let them run.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 12:58:29 AM by maguromic » Logged

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« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2008, 11:56:23 AM »

I agree that M/C motors have no place in vintage racing roadsters and the first time I see a Hayabusa entered as a XO or XXO engine I will fork up $100 to challenge it. As far as non-vintage engine classes (I-AA) I am much more forgiving.  cheesy

edit: Oh, and I have a 1930 Model A with a 42 merc flatty with a 39 3-speed and banjo sitting right next to my 1.5L turbo Honda Civic in my garage. Hot rodding is a mind set and transcends the different platforms. It's all good.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 12:09:59 PM by John Romero » Logged
RichFox
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« Reply #66 on: May 30, 2008, 12:05:40 PM »

"Real hot rod roadsters have V8s"? I and the other V4 roadster entrys may dispute that.
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« Reply #67 on: May 30, 2008, 12:27:30 PM »

While I am not building a roadster . . . in a way . . . I feel like I have a dog in this fight.  I am building a Gas Coupe with a bike engine.  I ran this design by the proper group of SCTA offiials a few years ago and they talked it over and emailed me back that it was ok.  The rule book says it is OK.  Current record at El Mirage, Bonneville and Maxton is ZERO. 

Simple fact is that there isn't an OEM car engine out there that can put out the kind of power to match a production bike engine in the 750cc and below sizes. 

Anyway, to demonstrate the there isn't a horse out there that is so dead that it still can be beaten . . . There are a couple of points that I think could add to this discussion.  First is that I suspect that there are a few out there that wouldn't care one way or the other except for the impact that a few bike engined cars are having on the El Mirage Points chase.  I can appreciate that concern because it can impact many in a variety of ways.  However, at Bonneville, where there is no points-chase issue, does anyone care if a H/BFR is powered by Suzuki Busa or a hand-built limited production formula road racing car engine or a destroked Toyota MR2 engine?  Probably not. 

Maybe someone should look at adjusting the record minimums for El Mirage for classes where bike engined cars will or could compete.  If those records are 'easy pickins' perhaps the problem is the 'soft' minimum and not the engine type.

Another issue is - when is a bike engine strictly a bike engine?  In the 1930s and 40s some Midgets were sometimes powered by harley engines.  Currently there are many, many classes in oval track and road racing that have cars that use engines that were originally used in bikes.  So instead of saying my gas coupe is powered by an engine from a Honda CBR bike I could say my Gas Coupe is powered by an engine from a Mini Sprint car or a D/Sports Racing SCCA race car or a Formula ASE car.  In effect it is not just a bike engine.  It comes as 'standard equipment' on many race cars.  And the use of such engines in cars goes back to before the formation of SCTA.  How's that for tradition!

A third issue - what about one-off or limited production racing engines that use components from bike engines?  How much of an engine can be built from bike parts before it is no longer a car engine and is considered a bike engine?  There is an engine being built for the Radical road racing cars that is a V8 version of the Suzuki Busa.  Is that a bike engine or a car engine?  It has never been used in a bike. 

Would it be ok to use the Mikuni carbs from a Suzuki as an intake system for a 1932 Plymouth PB flathead engine in the Vintage Flathead class in a roadster or does that make it a bike engine because of the bike carbs?  Where do you draw the line?

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RichFox
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« Reply #68 on: May 30, 2008, 02:26:12 PM »


Would it be ok to use the Mikuni carbs from a Suzuki as an intake system for a 1932 Plymouth PB flathead engine in the Vintage Flathead class in a roadster or does that make it a bike engine because of the bike carbs?  Where do you draw the line?
Who in the hell would do that? Not me.
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Stan Back
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« Reply #69 on: May 30, 2008, 07:22:06 PM »

Little --

You just make too much sense.  Don't you know not to use logic when emotion is the choice of the day?

Stan
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Harold Bettes
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« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2008, 08:55:59 PM »

Opinions are like anal ports and everybody has one..... afro So here is mine with a  question too. cheesy

Although I highly respect the traditions and history of Bonneville and El Mirage and Gardiner, et al I also highly respect the innovation and imagination of the gearhead. Using any piston engine for a power source seems to be a logical step in the game. cool

The bike engines are much more developed and reliable than many other platforms so it seems a natural to use 'em if they are in the displacement required. If it is legal to use an Indy engine in one of the car classes why not bike motors? evil huh

I also think that making guys use old antique engines while allowing internal mods for reliability and power is sorta goofy. That issue alone has driven the price of old flatmotor blocks out of sight! Using the French blocks or even aftermarket blocks makes much more sense. evil

Ok, the rant is done.  undecided

Regards to All,
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desotoman
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« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2008, 11:53:42 PM »


I also think that making guys use old antique engines while allowing internal mods for reliability and power is sorta goofy. That issue alone has driven the price of old flatmotor blocks out of sight!

Regards to All,
HB2 smiley

Harold,

Sorry but I have to disagree with you. I had a couple of good Flathead blocks that I tried to sell for $500 each, which I thought was cheap. Guess what no Buyers. What do you call out of sight?

Tom G.
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« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2008, 10:07:22 AM »

 Maybe you were too cheap on the price.  That’s a good deal for $500 !!!
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« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2008, 07:10:59 PM »

Hey Guys,

I am probably living in the dark ages and since my short term memory is junk and a long time ago seems easier to recall, I think that $500 is high dollar. Now that is just me. My point was that because of those particular rules, the potato chip old blocks are bringing a premium in pricing (at least that is the way it seems here at the Rocky Mountain's swap meets). huh

I highly respect the vintage classes in many ways because it is the basics of the history of LSR that set the stage for today. cool

Considering that some things provide no performance advantage and perhaps can improve the reliability or availability of components in my opinion should be what drives those decisions (and maybe they have). undecided

Regards to All,
HB2 smiley
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« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2008, 07:41:49 PM »

If you think $500 is a lot for a good vintage Ford block, how much do you think the French blocks are going for?
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