jumping line

[willieworld]

At El Mirage on Saturday, since my starting number was number 9, I had an early run. It was a shakedown run because I had done some changes on my bike from last year.After my run I went back to the pits and dropped my bike off and picked up Sheri's and headed for the rookie lane. Sheri made her run and then we went back to the pits and waited for them to call 1-25. Later that day they called 1-25 we headed for the staging lanes. When we got to the staging lanes there must have been 60 or 70 people in the pre-stage lines and they all had real high start numbers, like above 100. At first I thought that they hadn't finished running everybody and they just called us early. So I walked up to the front of the line still in pre-stage and I saw Paula Burns, and she said she didn't know what all those people were doing in line that they were out of order. Her starting position was #8 and mine was #9. So she said that if I had only had one run to pass them up and get behind her,which I did.
When the pre stage line pulled forward to the staging lanes I realized that the staging lanes were empty. So we were almost at the front of the line, I think I was 2nd back. The lanes filled up right behind us with alot of vehicles with real high numbers, like above 100-150. Then after awhile they shut the race down for Saturday and they told everybody in line to come back Sunday morning and take their same positions, even though about 80% of them were out of turn.
Saturday night I heard that there was a controversy about the line jumping, but the SCTA let them all come back Sunday morning and run. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I read the El Mirage procedures, there is a specific starting order and you can't start any sooner than first in your group.  If you can't start at the end of your group you can start at the end of any group behind you. So the people that cut in line were rewarded with an early run and some of the people who worked very hard last year to get a early start time, had to stand in the sun extra couple of hours because of some line jumpers. My wifes number was 238 starting position. Because of the extra 80 cars in line or 70 or how ever more there were, it would have moved Sheri's second pass to late afternoon in a regular lane. So we just decided to stay in the rookie lane to try to get an early run to avoid the heat. Although we thought that if we ran in a regular lane we thought that probably we could set the record.Which she almost did. She ran 106.173 on a 107.00 record.
My point is, how can somebody jump the line and move up 75 to 100 positions, when it is specifically against the rules. I think the minimum thing that should happen is that they wouldn't get a time ticket. And that run should count as one of their runs.
If we are going to have rules, lets enforce them. If we are not, I'll just show up two days before and get in the front of the line.

Just some thoughts.
Willie Buchta

[Glen]

Willie
I think this is an issue that needs to go to the SCTA Reps. meeting. There are not a lot of El Mirage racers on this site. Get a hold of Bob or Dan Chilson and see what they say. The person assigned to the pre stage area has control of what group is called up and should go by the starting position for that group of numbers unless of a no show and then they can move up.

Glen

[ol38y]

Willie,

   Late Sat. as I remember, I heard a call on the CB for any racer who wanted a second run to get in line, regardless of starting number. So, I got in line. When racing was called for the day we were told to get back in line behind the same person we were behind at the time.. So, the way I see it I didn't cut in line. Besides the line steward is too big to argue with...

   But, if you want to talk about the guys I saw bring an inspection sticker from another bike and put it on one in the staging lane, lets have that discussion!!!   

      Larry

     Oh Willie, I forgot to add, you are there 2 days before...LOL  Congratulations to both of you on your runs...

[willieworld]

I didn't hear anything on the radio about if anybody wants to run second round get in line. But if that did happen, it wouldn't be the racers fault it would be the line steward and announcers fault. I did hear if anybody wants to run a fourth round get in line, but that was on Sunday.
And as far as somebody putting a tag off one bike to another bike, that would be cheating. But I think that if they were going to do that they would be smart enough to do it before tech inspection, not up on the line where everybody could see them. I'm not sure what the penalty is for cheating, but in my opinion it should be lifetime suspension. From the SCTA, the club you are in, and the BNI.If the person that you are talking about set a record or not,you should have brought it to an officials attention at that time. If you didn't, you should now. If I would have seen them doing it I would have told someone or at least questioned them about why they were doing that.
When I rebuilt my bike during the off season, my wife sandblasted my frame tag. At the May meet I filled out an application for a new one. I had Doug sign and date my frame. So when the new tag comes with the old number I can put it back on the frame. When I do that, I will put it over Doug's name with Doug watching. If Doug is not in tech, than I will have Tom watch me. This way there is no suspicion of inpropriety.
Willie Buchta

[ol38y]

Willie,

       Wrong sticker. I was talking about the orange meet sticker. I also felt saying anything was a no win situation for me.

[desotoman]

Willie and Larry,

Like Glen said, what you experienced must be brought up to your club so that this doesn't happen again. I did not get to the races until Sunday morning, but I got an ear full on how the starting line numbers were not adhered to. That is all I will say on that issue until I find out some facts.

Larry, as far as someone changing stickers on bikes, what exactly happened or took place. We need to know so we can address the problem.

Tom G.

[Stan Back]

It's funny that when Willie wants to be heard, he uses capital letters and punctuation.  Perhaps he has a ghost writer and the rest of his promotions don't count?

[Dean Los Angeles]

The run order at the start of the event is always 1-25.
After that the lineup is on the honor system.
The rookie line doesn't have a starting number so after 1-25 they run at the starters discretion, and that is always ahead of where they would normally run (dead last).

When the call is made for 26-50 and onward during the first round, I think it's up to the staging lane official (the guy who sits in the back of the staging lines with the shoe polish) to turn away anyone that has a higher number. (And why would you have some one stationed there for any other reason?) The number has to be in shoe polish on the front window of the push vehicle and circled along with the vehicle number below it. I'm not sure if that is strictly enforced. I was looking for numbers all day and saw a bunch that didn't have it.

The starter marks the inspection sticker to denote that a run has been made so that you can't make a second run until all the first round vehicles have had a chance to run. Yeah, I suppose somebody could swap stickers. If you see it, report it!

In the afternoon that careful consideration goes away.  The call was made for everybody that had not made a first run to come to the staging lines. That call was made three times over the CB and 4 times over the PA/FM on Saturday. I was doing the announcing so I have that on good authority. Somebody in your crew has to pay close attention to the CB for everything they say. The PA/FM is only a backup.

Not everybody makes a second pass so the call was made for 1-25, almost immediately for 26-50 and not very long after for 51 and everybody else. Run order doesn't seem to be a priority. If it is a priority, and it should be, take it up with your club representative. The difference would be when you ran, not if. The second round that was started Saturday was picked up Sunday.

Picking up where they started the next day on a two day event is normal. The chaos over how to do that kind of surprised me. That was the first time I was involved with that and nobody had a good idea how that was going to get done. Somebody said keep track of the vehicle in front of you and behind you and that was that. They couldn't leave the line where it was because the shut down at 3:30 was to move the course, and that meant moving everybody.

[isiahstites]

The run order at the start of the event is always 1-25.
After that the lineup is on the honor system.
The rookie line doesn't have a starting number so after 1-25 they run at the starters discretion, and that is always ahead of where they would normally run (dead last).

When the call is made for 26-50 and onward during the first round, I think it's up to the staging lane official (the guy who sits in the back of the staging lines with the shoe polish) to turn away anyone that has a higher number. (And why would you have some one stationed there for any other reason?) The number has to be in shoe polish on the front window of the push vehicle and circled along with the vehicle number below it. I'm not sure if that is strictly enforced. I was looking for numbers all day and saw a bunch that didn't have it.

The starter marks the inspection sticker to denote that a run has been made so that you can't make a second run until all the first round vehicles have had a chance to run. Yeah, I suppose somebody could swap stickers. If you see it, report it!

In the afternoon that careful consideration goes away.  The call was made for everybody that had not made a first run to come to the staging lines. That call was made three times over the CB and 4 times over the PA/FM on Saturday. I was doing the announcing so I have that on good authority. Somebody in your crew has to pay close attention to the CB for everything they say. The PA/FM is only a backup.

Not everybody makes a second pass so the call was made for 1-25, almost immediately for 26-50 and not very long after for 51 and everybody else. Run order doesn't seem to be a priority. If it is a priority, and it should be, take it up with your club representative. The difference would be when you ran, not if. The second round that was started Saturday was picked up Sunday.

Picking up where they started the next day on a two day event is normal. The chaos over how to do that kind of surprised me. That was the first time I was involved with that and nobody had a good idea how that was going to get done. Somebody said keep track of the vehicle in front of you and behind you and that was that. They couldn't leave the line where it was because the shut down at 3:30 was to move the course, and that meant moving everybody.

So you were the guy in the trailer holding the microphone.........

[willieworld]

stan back im not sure what you ment--i dont write so good or spell that good either --when i have a long letter to write i let my wife sheri do it as she types faster it would take me to long --im hopeing that wasnt a shot because of my typing skills its hard to tell sometimes when i read something  --just trying to write what i saw     willie buchta

[836dstr]

Dean is right on. We had the CB on in the Pits and after the first round heard the call for the first 2 groups for the second round, then the open call for anyone that wanted to make their second round run. Kind of a strange way of doing it since on Sunday the second round ran in the order you staged. Then the third round went back to calling up groups again.

Tom

[willieworld]

some one screwed up  --there is a order until everyone has one run then it starts all over and over -whoever doesnt think so needs to read the rules   willie buchta

[desotoman]

The call was made for everybody that had not made a first run to come to the staging lines. That call was made three times over the CB and 4 times over the PA/FM on Saturday. I was doing the announcing so I have that on good authority. Somebody in your crew has to pay close attention to the CB for everything they say. The PA/FM is only a backup.

Not everybody makes a second pass so the call was made for 1-25, almost immediately for 26-50 and not very long after for 51 and everybody else.

I would say the person at fault would be the person who OK-ed the calling sequence for "51 and everybody else". The sequence of 25 numbers at a time should have been adhered to IMO.

Tom G.

[John Noonan]

Well here is how the June starting line position should look...


Vehicle Engine Body Entry Name Club Driver/Rider Speed Record Pts


4949B  50CC   SCS-BF  Buddfab Streamliner SDRC Eric Noyes 108.005 69.000 264

1B     1650CC SC-BG   Noonan / Moreland / Derwin SDRC John Noonan 209.441 173.000 261

7601B  250CC  SC-BG   Team McLeish TZ Gear Grinders Derek McLeish 134.578 108.000 251

539B   1350CC A-BG    Noonan / Derwin Racing SDRC John Noonan 223.331 206.761 241

2132 G      BGCC    Hondata RSX Rod Riders Doug Macmillan 173.265 160.000 238

570 G      BFMR    Bud Free Gear Grinders Bud Free 172.958 160.000 237

493 H      BGRMR   Moreland Noonan Lux SDRC Bob Moreland 185.197 174.588 235

534 V4F    STR     Rocket Science '34 Milers Jim Jard 109.266 99.671 234

664 C      GL      Kelly & Hall Racing Eliminators Paul Kelly 219.691 210.592 234

2 H      GR      Eyres Morel and Noonan SDRC Russ Eyres 144.085 135.414 233

9B     1000CC SC-PG   Willie Buchta Gear Grinders Willie Buchta 132.280 124.942 232

760 I      GL      Team McLeish Bros Gear Grinders Derek McLeish 160.236 152.346 232

2111 G      P/MP    White Goose Bar Racing Sidewinders Mike Manghelli 117.215 110.000 232

686 F      GMR     Nelson and Nelson Super Fours Keith Nelson 176.986 170.089 231

5154B  1000CC APS-PG  Teamsubtlecrowbar SDRC Bill Ross 157.953 151.000 231

1934 E      BSTR    Shaen Magan Milers Shaen Magan 186.542 181.647 230

32 V4F    BFR     Harold Johansen Sidewinders Bill Lattin 129.372 125.000 229

635 B      GMR     Salty Dogs Racing GoldCstRdsts John Rank 223.269 218.594 229

6880B  1350CC A-BF    Scott McLeod Gear Grinders Scott McLeod (2) 214.197 209.888 229

126 C      CPRO    Cohn Jucewic Monza Sidewinders Bob Jucewic 201.746 198.278 228

831 V4     GR      Spirit of San Diego SDRC Scott Goetz 156.235 152.543 228

203 H      GR      Burns - Callaway - Spring HiDsrtRcrs Paula Burns 136.608 135.414 226

752 XXF    FMR     Ferguson Racing Rod Riders Don Ferguson Jr. 204.157 202.440 226

915B   250CC  P-P     Mercury Gear Grinders Mark Anderson 133.913 131.980 226

6060 K      GL      Poison Arrow Eliminators Michele Brading 122.210 121.521 226

2555 F      P/MP    Thomas & Buchele Flying Red Brick Sidewinders 123.834 123.170 225

[Stan Back]

Damn -- I just wrote a reply and posted it and it disappeard.

My god it was brilliant -- and now to reconstruct it . . .

Willie -- You're right.

Your earned number should count for something if not just a shorter wait in line.

But for the first time in a long time, a 2-day meet netted more than 2 total runs per entrant.  And on Saturday, after the Emmons plow job in the first round, it really didn't matter too much when you ran, except for the longer wait in line.

We get what we pay for.  But fortunately, the SCTA is the finest all-volunteeer organization that I've ever seen.  Kiss, kiss -- but I still pay my dues, just like you.

I'm sure the powers that be have heard of the disappointment you've experienced and will address it as best they can.

Stan Back