Normally Aspirated Bikes in Supercharged classes at Maxton

[JackB750]

Hi All. I'm still pretty new to this whole LSR and ECTA thing so forgive me if I seem a little confused at times. Still, I have a question about non-supercharged bikes bumping into the supercharged classes (/BF, /BG). In the ECTA 2007 (and earlier I suppose) rules under the engines section (Ref VI-5 A 6 and 7; page 57) it says that "mechanically or exhaust driven supercharger is PERMITTED" I can see how this would allow an N/A bike to run there without fitting any turbo or supercharger hardware. However, in the (heavily changed) ECTA 2008 rules the rule book says (ref section 7.J.7 and 7.J.8; page 82) that a "supercharger or turbocharger is REQUIRED and must be mechanically or exhaust gas driven and must pressurize the intake system above atmospheric pressure." This seems to fairly clearly preclude competing in the forced induction classes without the required supercharger hardware. However I have seen, as recently as this past weekend, normally aspirated bikes running in the forced induction classes. Am I missing something? Is this maybe just a Maxton precedent that we're hanging on to? Thanks in advance for any input/insight and thanks Keith, Jon, Nancy, Joe, Tonya, Donna and everyone else that works so hard to keep the ECTA program ongoing. This past weekend was a blast and I look forward to participating for a long time!
Jack Broomall
Project 750 Assault
jhbfly@yahoo.com

[Dean Los Angeles]

Rules are there for a reason. Nah, nobody ever cheats, do they?

I vaguely remember somebody at Bonneville years ago running a heater blower from his truck (no boost) to get around the rules. "Pressure required" is to avoid that kind of thing.
Very tough to enforce. On a slow or open blown record you could duct tape a turbo on the side of the bike and get yourself a record.

There are some very fast normally aspirated bikes, and if they run in the blown class and set a record it should be disallowed in impound inspection. Rules should be followed. Because of that sort of thing, the SCTA rule book says "if an appropriate class exists, a vehicle shall run in that class". I'm not sure how the ECTA protest mechanism works, but that would be the next step. The SCTA rule book also says "All vehicles will run only in the lowest primary class/category for which they are legal."

In the drive to get a record, any record, some competitors, or should I say non-competitors will look at the thousands of combinations of classes out there and try to tweak things to their advantage. This is why the SCTA has established competitive minimums for classes. It's all been tried before.

[bvillercr]

You shouldn't fret the unblown guys, they do not have an advantage.  They may although have the high dollar budgets to put a quality race engine together and compete with those of us that have blown engines and low dollar budgets.  Like the Gas vs. fuel class the fuel class cannot run in the gas class but a gas class can run in a fuel class because they do not have an advantage.  This is the only sense I can make of it.  If the rules have been broken then it should not be allowed.   

[racer x]

I am entered in MPS/G the record is faster than I have gone.I have gone faster than the MPS/BG record. Should I enter my bike in the MPS/BG catagory since I have already gone that fast? Even though I don't have a turbo?

[John Noonan]

I am entered in MPS/G the record is faster than I have gone.I have gone faster than the MPS/BG record. Should I enter my bike in the MPS/BG catagory since I have already gone that fast? Even though I don't have a turbo?

Who holds the record and what is the speed you are referring to that is slower in a blown class than a gas all motor class?

Thanks,

J

[racer x]

 ECTA recorsds. Mr Tom Schaefer Has both records MPS/BF-250-4 the record is 103.843 mph set in june 2007.
 The MPS/F-250-4 record is 106.816 mph set in October 2006.
The fastes speed I have set is  104.720 mph in May 2008.  Both records where set on a non supercharged bike. I am only conserned with speed .But a record would be nice.Thanks           Eric

[wfojohn]

Help..... Jack's original post asking for clarification has been viewed 380 times up til now, with no definitave resolution, will some one from the ECTA please respond with the official answer. I have been following this anticipating it to be cleared up because I too have wondered about how it is allowed. Thanks, J.R.

[DahMurf]

Ok, I'll answer... but you asked for it.... (next post)

[DahMurf]

At the ECTA you are allowed to run up in motor class. There is something in the book that says no, because we for the most part use Bonneville rules. But somewhere in there we also state that you CAN run up in engine class which overrides the must have a blower to be blown statement. None the less, what we administer at the track is that yes you can run up in engine class without making a change.

So, you can run an unblown bike in a blown class just as Mr Tom did. If you're that close to the record I say go for it!

(many racers think if the blown bike can't go faster then the unblown bike then that's their problem!  )

Deb

[sockjohn]

I kind of fail to see the fun in setting a normally aspirated record, then changing class and going the same speed just to get a blown record.  That newly set record would obviously be soft, and how long would it last?

get blown or get blown away....
 

Not my change of class money, so do what makes you happy and have fun no matter what that is.

[wfojohn]

Hey Deb,

Yes, and we took advantage of the next higher classes with the Mighty 100 last year but with the statements made on page 82 for 7J7 & 7J8 it would seem as wrong as putting an altered into production (Absurd Example), it just seems that it is overlooking defined and printed rules. Please understand I am willing to do either and I was seeing the above rules thinking it to be a mistake. Again, I only wanted written clarification.

Now to sweet talk ya a little... Damn girl, ya did good..congrats and tell Todd I said hello.

John Ritter

[DahMurf]

ECTA 2008 Rulebook
Page 8, Section 1, General Competition Requirements
1.B Classification
Sentence number 8; (which is actually the 3rd line on page 9)

With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.

It has been deemed by the ECTA that fuel is a higher engine category then gas and blown is a higher engine category then unblown.

Deb

[DahMurf]

I kind of fail to see the fun in setting a normally aspirated record, then changing class and going the same speed just to get a blown record.  That newly set record would obviously be soft, and how long would it last?

For some people it only needs to last until the time slip is marked "new record"!
I was happy to go home with my 202 record but I can tell you if Steve ran the very next pass right behind me and upped it by 2mph, I would still be happy! 

Everyone has an opinion on this and they're all correct! 

I think everyone needs to do what works for them and if you can be nice to your fellow competitors then that's a mighty sportsman like thing to do.
I know one racer that won't top a record if they know it's that persons fastest speed record. I think that's very considerate.
Many of us running similar classes will each pick a class to run so we each can try to go home with a record. I think that's nice too.
Some are in it for the quantity of records and they're going home with as many as they can get regardless. That's their perogative. Sometimes that doesn't come across so nice but if you pay your money you're entitled to it.
This is all about top speed and if you're running the fastest (legally) then you deserve the record and everyone else competing will need to step up their game.
Just some of my thoughts.
Deb

[wfojohn]

Hi Deb,
Read it, confusion cleared up.
Thanks
J.R.

ECTA 2008 Rulebook
Page 8, Section 1, General Competition Requirements
1.B Classification
Sentence number 8; (which is actually the 3rd line on page 9)

With the ECTA only, vehicles may legally run in higher engine categories for their class.

It has been deemed by the ECTA that fuel is a higher engine category then gas and blown is a higher engine category then unblown.

Deb

[/quote]

[Stan Back]

How long could they last?  The question is how long will it take to fill in all the blanks in all the classes that motorcycles have.  How great can it feel to have a record(s) that's never been, and may never be, contested?  I understand the reasoning -- it keeps the customers happy.  But I'm glad the SCTA doesn't play by these rules -- except for they're creating a 1000 more "wheel-on-a-stick" classes.