What is a World Land Speed Record? is it SCTA, FIM, AMA, ECTA, El Mirage...?

[Malcolm UK]

A "World" record surely cannot be tied to a single place on this planet (or its brother in a parallel universe).  The world is not just one continent or one country.  If I can break a record set in the USA when in Australia or challenge one set in England and then I break it South Adfrica, then that may be a "World" record.    

The rules for attaining a world record should be available to everyone to follow, anywhere they select.  How many sanctioning bodies offer true coverage of the "World" we live in?  Perhaps DW is heading in the right direction and we need a consortium of sanctioning bodies who follow common standrds - an International or World Federation perhaps?

Whilst there may be many timed distances these should be sufficiently long enough to eliminate instantaneous speed recording, but not too long to make it an endurance record.  Is the kilometre or mile the right length of timing trap?  

Two way runs can eliminate any wind assistance, but the time interval should be such that there is insufficient time for the wind to change direction.  Two hours seems about right.  Of course the alternative is to have a maximum tail wind speed written into the rules of the sanctioning body as well.  Which sanctioning body has that rule?

Does this near annual 'explanation' make any difference to our sport?  Probably not.

Malcolm in the UK

ps - The FIM is an organisation of many countires, but it is based in Switzerland (not France).

pps - anyone form the car side want to start another thread on which body sanctions "World" records for four or more wheels?
    

[Sumner]

In my opinion... it all boils down to the wind. Wind affects most sports.... golf, tennis, sailing, football, baseball and most importantly Lands Speed Racing. In my airplane, with a constant power setting, I have achieved a ground speed (per two GPS's) of 80 knots and 240 knots and these are basically at the same altitude of 12,000 feet.  Of all the racing venues in the World I only know of the FIM/AMA venues put on by BUB that take wind into account and these venues are for motorcyles only. Return runs must be with 2 hours for FIM and 4 hours for AMA. And then the two speeds must be averaged out for a final record speed. The problem I see with Maxton and the Texas mile is that the landing strips were built into the prevailing winds so they the US military could land their WWII planes... into the pervailing winds for the least landing speeds. Many of the speed runs at these two venues are made with the wind and no return runs are made due to logistics.

In my opinion, each venue must have it's own records because different atmospheric, physical conditions and rules apply. One must compare "apples with apples". One can't compare a speed at Maxton with one at Bonneville. In regard to World Records one must have two runs in opposite directions in a short amount of time to take wind into account. Any venue in the World can have World record capabilities but at this time the FIM/AMA trials at BUB are the only racing venues to take wind into account. Therefore I feel the FIM records are the only truly World Records for motorcycles.  As for what is a World record with a car... well I leave that up to you cars guys to decide--

One thing you have failed to mention thought is that the bikes only have a 5 mile course at Speed Week and a 6 mile at BUB and a number of bike records were set and are still standing that did run the 5 mile course at Speed Week in both directions.  No longer possible due to safety and other considerations, but two way runs were still run just a few years ago. Also at Speed Week if you run under 175 you are limited to the short course (3 miles) and I don't think that is the case at BUB.  I'm not trying to take anything away from BUB AMA/FIM records, but let's also not take anything away from the records set at Speed Week.  I think your example of wind speeds in your airplane doesn't hold much water in regards to racing on the salt due to the fact that the course is shut down over a certain air speed, which would be way lower than what you would fly in to achive those speed differences.  Still at times it can be an advantage and I'm sure it has also been an advantage when running both ways when one run was in still air and the other might have been with a tail wind.

c ya,

Sum

[PanchoPistoles]

There are only two international sanctioning bodies, FIM for motorcycles and FIA for automobiles.  If a record is set under their rules, with conditions verified by their representatives, then it is an international (or world) record. Records set under the sanction of any other organizations are not "world" records, even though the speeds recorded may be higher than the official "world" record speeds.  Incidentally, the FIA classification system is different from the SCTA-BNI system.  Don't know about FIM.

The BUB meet is apparently run under FIM sanction, so all you bikers can set "world" records, if your machines are up to it.

Any person or group (share the cost) can obtain a permit from the BLM for a private meet on the salt.  That meet can be organized to meet all the requirements for FIA sanction and any records set would be "world" records.  It's a little pricey, but there you are.

Regards, Frank

(I know how fast you were going)

[Larry C]

Frank, you get it! BUB offers both national records (AMA Sanction) and FIM. Special paper work is required for FIM records, FIM license, different fees etc. The course is set up a little different as well. A measured mile, for AMA National Records, and a measured kilo, for FIM International Records, are surveyed and certified onto the salt on one course. If two courses are run there will be a surveyed measured mile only on the second course.  I think that some folks understandably confuse fastest speed with record speed, there is a big difference

[Randall Parker]

  Speed Week, World of Speed and World Finals.  Three chances to set a world record for the "Flying Mile".  If you want a World Record for the "Flying Kilometer" you go to Bub and enter the FIM sanctioned class.  I am getting it. 

[Rocky R]

Don't forget Lake Gairdner in Australia. Also FIM sanction so world records can be obtained if you care to cross the pond. Great group of fellows, great salt, and of course, Coopers beer...

I hear many are planning a trip stateside for a romp at Bonneville in 2009. Should be a lot of fun.

Rocky R

[PanchoPistoles]

BZZZT! Sorry, Randal, that is not the correct answer. Speed Week and World Finals (BNI events) and World of Speed (a USAFRA event) are not FIA or FIM sanctioned and are not run according to FIA or FIM procedures.  The flying mile speeds are BNI/USAFRA speeds and any records are not recognized as international.
Don't know about FIM, but FIA maintains records for both the flying mile and the flying kilometer.
Regards, Frank

[ddahlgren]

Fastest thing on 4 wheels should be easy... anyone else break the sound barrier lately with certified clocks??

[Stainless1]

Fastest thing on 4 wheels should be easy... anyone else break the sound barrier lately with certified clocks??

The sonic boom was almost a little more revealing than the clocks, although it does have a tendency to move around a little.  The next group won't get the pleasure of instant gratification, they will need to read the clocks to know if the goal was made. 

[ddahlgren]

I may be wrong usually am on history things.. but if I remeber correctly and do correct me if i am wrong.. didn't they change the day of the record attempt to fall on the same date that Yeager broke the sound barrier???
Dave

[Glen]

Frank
BNI international records were run at BNI world finals in 1999,2001,2002 & 2004, These were certified by FIA at these events, All runs were two way Kilo and flying mile. Alan & James Rice and I timed them. They are in the rule book page 133.

The meets after that were private time set up by Cook Motor sports.

[Richard Thomason]

Certificates and $1.00 can buy you a cup of coffee at a convenience store but the real value is in the personal satifaction and the knowledge that you were part of the effort and the accomplishment. Whatever venue or whatever rules it was under, it was unique and a first. Be proud and happy.

[Nortonist 592]

Fastest is fastest.

[Glen]

Having worked in the timing stand / trailer for 24 years at Bonneville, El Mirage and Muroc and one gets a record in that venue it is a record and everyone I know is proud to achieved it. I have signed many record certs. and never had one deny one or return one saying they didn't want it because the French didn't certify it as a world record. You will find most of the racers don't give a damn about FIA records. Ask any of them.

At a normal Bonneville we cannot run the FIA cars due to the large number of entries. The meet would require shutting down and moving the vehicles away from the down course starting area, all of the spectators and anything else that would be in the way. The other problem is the one hour turn around that keeps the course on hold and no one can run. If there were an incident that interupted the return runs they would have to qualify  again  and start the one hour turn around again.

In the past the FIA runs wer run at the World Finals or special meets and are very expensive for the racers.
The other thing is all are volunteers except for a few officials that put on the meet. As they are private there are no spectators to help support the event with sales etc. the weather is always a factor and other people have the salt reserved for their event.

[Sumner]

............You will find most of the racers don't give a damn about FIA records. Ask any of them....................

Amen..............and I'd welcome any FIA B/BGCC car/crew to come to Speed Week, WOS, World Finals, DLRA meet or for that matter at an "official" FIA meet and better our record "in the mile".  I'd be glad to congratulate them on their deed and would then consider that they now hold the B/BGCC "world" record.

c ya,

Sum