Author Topic: Helmet question  (Read 5449 times)

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Offline narider

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Re: Helmet question
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 05:25:52 PM »
Strange that the M is ok for cars and bikes, but the SA only cars.  It would seem almost the other way around as it looks like the SA has to meet more requirements.  I guess I'm missing something here,
Sum

You're not missing anything Sum, at least not with ECTA. We've allowed car helmets on bikes, but we've(at least in the distant past ---> Beckett era) never considered the bike helmets safe for cars due to their fire rating deficiency.
The car helemts have a visual deficiency compared to the bike helmets, but not enough in our venue ("hey, look straight ahead dummy") that we saw it as a safety issue.

Deb could point it out better as I think she's one of the one's that initiatted the discussion and research, but a search in the archives here and in the ECTA group will find this discussed in depth in the past.

I find it odd that SCTA would allow the bike helmets in a car though (if that's true)?
Todd

Offline Sumner

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Re: Helmet question
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 08:55:22 PM »
Strange that the M is ok for cars and bikes, but the SA only cars.  It would seem almost the other way around as it looks like the SA has to meet more requirements.  I guess I'm missing something here,
Sum

You're not missing anything Sum, at least not with ECTA. We've allowed car helmets on bikes, but we've(at least in the distant past ---> Beckett era) never considered the bike helmets safe for cars due to their fire rating deficiency.
The car helmets have a visual deficiency compared to the bike helmets, but not enough in our venue ("hey, look straight ahead dummy") that we saw it as a safety issue.

Deb could point it out better as I think she's one of the one's that initiated the discussion and research, but a search in the archives here and in the ECTA group will find this discussed in depth in the past.

I find it odd that SCTA would allow the bike helmets in a car though (if that's true)?
Todd

Well I got the '08 rule book out, should have done that before.  Looks like maybe from the way it is written you can wear either SA or M in either a car or on at bike.....

3.A.2  Driver's Helmet:

All drivers/riders shall wear a full-face helmet with face shield.  A Snell Foundation tag reading SA2000 or M 2000 or later is required.  No open face Helmets will be allowed.  Helmets will be visually inspected at least once each year.  Helmets shall be undamaged and in serviceable condition.  Eye glasses worn under the helmet shall be shatterproof.
(the 2007 rule book reads the same way)

3.A.3 Driver' Helmet Support:

..................

So maybe you can use either in a car or on a bike.  I can see the vision thing requirement for street riding, but like you said not a big deal for us.

c ya,

Sum


Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Helmet question
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 09:11:56 PM »
Sum, do you remember the old original Simpson Bandit's  they are SA certifiied but for street or street bike use the field of vision is reduced considerably (this helmet is a good example of M  vs  SA  cert's)  I however like the helmet.  But currently use a Bell BR1 (Bell Racer Series  SA2005,,, Std. Bell White with Red Stickers)
But if I find a good deal I am going to get a Flat Black Simpson Bandit to match my new Vicky LSR.


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Offline narider

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Re: Helmet question
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2008, 09:30:08 AM »
That's correct Sum,
On the car side there was never a designator other then stating "Snell rated" early on, then later(somewhere around 2003 I believe?), the "M" (or) "SA" designators were added to the rulebook in the car section (and became under question by a few).
With the bike side on the other hand, there was no "M"(only) designator until 2007(still under question? yes).

At that time(around 2003 or 2004 actually I think?), the questioning pushed some of us to look deeper into reasons that we wouldn't (or couldn't, other then the written rule) allow them to be swapped in vehicle type. Seeing as we were bike guys(and a girl :roll:) studying it.. we didn't see where it effected our MC rules and the car guys are running the place sooo on to the next gig. Then, again in 2006 we looked at it deeper when it was being discussed about the "M only" designator for the bikes (allowing SA helemt's on bikes wasn't anything that made it in the rulebook as you can see, but it's not something I'm going to shoot someone down for in tech either). We do let the car guys that talk about hearing a bike helmet for reduced weight, visibility, etc... that the fire rating is not there and it's not a good idea from what we studyied in the past.

At anyrate, you and Larry are both correct in the reading of the current rules (but like some other unmentioned rules), that doens't make them right... just improperly (imo) transposed over the years.
Todd

EDIT - PS: the above references are ECTA related (sorry, it's all I know fairly well right now), and I haven't had time (YET) or have all the SCTA rulebooks in my posession currently to see the progression of the original rulers.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 09:33:37 AM by narider »