Author Topic: Let's talk about welders  (Read 8284 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Let's talk about welders
« on: March 26, 2008, 11:49:33 PM »
I'm looking to pick up a light duty 110V welder.  Here's what it needs to be able to do.

Sheet metal patch panels on a tub.

Reinforcement plates and gussets, probably 1/4 inch thick or less.

Exhaust.

Rear suspension perches for leaf springs.

I will not be using it to build my roll cage.

I would prefer a welder that would operate on a 110V, 20-amp circuit, and that it be small enough to power up with a portable generator.  I'm thinking a gasless wire feed, but I'm not up on what's out there, or what works well.  Should I be looking at something else?

My stick welding chops were decent about 20 years ago, but I've never used anything more modern than on old Lincoln arc welder.

Also, I'm not averse to paying a little more to purchase a "Made in the USA" product, unless an import is clearly a better tool.

I guess I'm looking for opinions and recommendations from those of you who have used small welders.

Thanks!

Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Sumner

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4078
  • Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere
    • http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 12:04:32 AM »
As far as I'm concerned this is simple.  Get either a lincoln or miller.  Parts are and will be available and they work good.  Get a mig that can run flux core wire, but get a regulator and run Argon/CO2 mixed gas and you won't regret it.

Forget what they say you can weld thickness wise and forget welding 1/4 with a 110.  You just won't get a good safe weld.  In fact if you are trying to weld say a .120 gusset to a roll bar tube I wouldn't trust that.  You just can't get enough heat into the roll bar even if it is the same .120 thickness.  Two pieces of .120 to each other in a butt weld where you can grind both of them yes, but in most other applications I would get a buzz box out and weld them.  It is easy to weld with a mig and the weld will look great, but all too often it will be laying on the top without good penetration unless you have a 220 welder.  I realize you don't want to probably run wiring for 220, but in my opinion that is the only way you are going to get any type of safe chassis welds.  I know guys use 110 welders all the time.

I had a 110 miller and loved it, for body work, but would use a 220 buzz box for all my chassis work.  Now I have a 220 miller mig 175 amp that I love and trust for "almost" anything car related and a 225 amp Lincoln TIG that is a great welder.

In summary I would not trust a 110 for "Reinforcement plates and gussets, probably 1/4 inch thick or less." and "Rear suspension perches for leaf springs".


c ya,

Sum
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 12:06:44 AM by Sumner »

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2008, 12:20:53 AM »
Chris:

I'm a weldor by trade and work for a company that sells both Miller and Lincoln. I've played with some of the 110 volt imports. My advise if your planning on doing anything more than body work get a 220 volt machine and make it a domestic product. I use a 110 volt mig with gas for doing the odd installation but would never consider doing anything critical with 110 volts.

If you have to use a proper 220 volt extension cord to get the necessary power to your machine. If you have to go any distance you may have a little voltage drop but you'll still be way ahead of using a 110 volt machine. Even at full pop you just won't get enough power out of the smaller machines to do a good job.

Sum's got the whole program right.

Pete

Offline Dean Los Angeles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2008, 10:09:06 AM »
You mentioned powering it with a portable generator. Is that so you can take it with you to do repairs?

If that is the criteria, then you are going to need a BIG generator! Even for light welding.

If that is what you had in mind, I would skip that plan and buy a 220V welder that will do the job. If you need repairs on the road you can always find a welder.

Try heating a cup of tea with a match and see how long it takes you. 110V is like that.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2008, 06:57:01 PM »
Sum's got the whole program right.

Well, doesn't he always? :-)

I realize you don't want to probably run wiring for 220, but in my opinion that is the only way you are going to get any type of safe chassis welds.

Actually, wiring the garage isn't an issue - I've got 60-amp service and a pair of unused circuits available, it was just my hope that I could get 2 110V circuits out of it rather than dedicating the pair for 220. 

I guess I was also hoping that the technology had gotten to the point where one could get some decent heat and a livable duty cycle out of a 110V machine.  It looks as though that's not the case.

You mentioned powering it with a portable generator. Is that so you can take it with you to do repairs?

That was the thought, but I suppose if I do it right the first time, it shouldn't need repairs.  I like to travel light, and not bringing something is lighter than bringing something that won't work.

Thanks for the insights!

Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Sumner

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4078
  • Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere
    • http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 01:08:49 PM »
Sum's got the whole program right.

Well, doesn't he always? :-)

Nope :cry:

.....................Actually, wiring the garage isn't an issue - I've got 60-amp service and a pair of unused circuits available, it was just my hope that I could get 2 110V circuits out of it rather than dedicating the pair for 220.................

Do you have the option of replacing some of the 110 breakers with the 1/2 high ones where 2 fit in the space of one??  If so that would free up some for more 110 breakers.  Also you could run a 220 breaker in the 2 spaces you have left and run that to a much smaller box that would increase your abilities to have more circuits in it.  Just a thought and you probably have already considered it.

Get a welder and don't look back,

Sum

Offline Rick Byrnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 03:06:45 PM »
Some time ago I got a Miller Maxstar 150 tig and stick machine, and have been very happy with it.
I don't do the finish welding on my chassis as it is best left to the real pro who does it all day every day, but this tig will do anything in steel and stainless that I ask of it.  Even structrual parts.  Penetration in a properly prepared joint is good, and with an optional foot pedal, I have finally got to a point that I feel a need to grind my welds.
I have learned with this machine and am happy.
Around $1K but worth every penny.
110 or 220.  Automatically senses.
truly portable, and with a small argon bottle, a good accessrory in my trailer come racing time.
Give it a look.  It is a good welder for folks like us.

Rick
Rick

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 03:19:10 PM »
The Maxstar works really well as a tig as long as you don't plan on welding aluminum. If you're planning on running it off a generator see if you can't try it on the generator you're planning on using. We've found that it seems to require really clean power and the machine won't run or won't run properly on a lot of the lower priced generators even if they proclaim to put out the required power.

Pete

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 11:43:16 PM »
Do you have the option of replacing some of the 110 breakers with the 1/2 high ones where 2 fit in the space of one?? 
Too funny - guess what I picked up at Menards on the way home? :-D

If I don't log on this weekend, call 911 - and tell the ambulance driver I'm in the garage. :-o
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline doug odom

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
    • popmotorsports.com
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2008, 12:07:21 AM »
Talked today to my father who has about 12 welders in his shop. He told me the Hobart 110v he has is by far the best 110v welder he has ever had. I don't know the model number but he said it cost about $600. I have found that the poor arc stability of the cheap 110v welders makes them really hard to use. Now I have a 50 year old H&P for TIG and a 30 year old Miller wire feed so I am behind the curve on the new stuff.
Doug Odom in big ditch
Doug Odom in big ditch

How old would you be now if you didn't know how old you are?
If you can't race it or take it to bed - it ain't worth having.

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6908
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »
If you are going to be doing " CAR STUFF "---Spring for Summ's Lincoln Tig suggestion--- and get a water cooled Torch down the Line-----thats where you will end up someday---been there--- made the mistakes---and I started with a 220 Mig---am learning to TIG now----then the GOOD STUFF!!!!!   best ting I ever did was enroll in a welding class at the comunity college---stick---then gas--now TIG---then MIG---run by an OLD time welder---who hopes you never get around to MIG---lol---has seen mig welds kill people!!!!!mostly 110v units
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6662
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2008, 04:41:19 PM »
Okay, I'm still alive, my 110 service has been converted to 1/2 size breakers, 2 new circuits (no more tripping over drop cords for THIS boy!) and I've got room for the 220 breaker and the outlet - size and location to be determined - seems half of working on a car is getting the garage in order.

I like the Maxstar for its size, and the fact that I could use it on a 110 circuit in a pinch, but at 150 amps at 220V, the duty cycle drops to 30%.  Will 150 amps running 30% of the time give me sufficient  heat for motor mounts or axle perches?  As light as it is (what, 15 lbs!?), there can't be a lot of copper in the transformer, and I worry about the heat it would produce internally.  Does it use some sort of a switching power supply?  I know that type of technology is being used in audio amplifiers to varying degrees of success, and schematically, amplifiers look rather similar to welders.

Thanks to all!

Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2008, 05:05:11 PM »
When a welder is rated at 30% duty cycle that means 3 minutes in 10. For a lot of welding jobs that's acceptable because we spend a lot more time fitting up and cleaning up than actually welding. A large bracket or a long run could get you into time out mode.

My understanding is that when the machine reaches its internal temperature limit it just shuts down so it shouldn't cause you any real problems other than you lose a little heat in your weld and with steel that isn't particularly critical. I've only welded small brackets with the inverter machine so I haven't tested its limits or its capabilities.

We've sold quite a few and haven't had any complaints or comebacks, so that's a good sign.

Pete
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 05:07:10 PM by Peter Jack »

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6908
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 12:14:58 PM »
Sums, 225 Lincoln should be on your consideration ---a guy in my welding class came in last night and thanked me for putting him on the 225 after I had seen Sums work and how happy he is with it!!!!!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline ddahlgren

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: Let's talk about welders
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2008, 03:17:46 PM »
I have a Lincoln Precision Tig 275 it is big it is heavy has a load of copper in it and somewhat old tech. It does anything asked and will crank out over 300 amps short duty cycle. Aluminum is like butter under the torch. I am am not the greatest welder in the world but hire a couple that are off and on never a complaint for lack of equiptment to work with.. :-D
Dave