Production class engine rule

[markwill]

I'm trying to understand the engine rule for Production class cars.  I have a 1962 Ford Falcon with a factory 170 cu in 6-cylinder engine.  Is it considered an "engine swap" to install a later vintage 250 cid 6-cylinder engine.  Both are of the same family the way a 265 Chevy smallblock is to a 350 Chevy smallblock.

I've read the rulebook and am just a bit confused about the engine rule. 

[Rick Byrnes]

I am very famailar with the small inline Ford 6, and yes you can run the 250.  All the cylinder heads will fit all blocks which is the prime consideration.  With an Aussie cross flow cyl head, it could be a formidable engine especially if it is boosted.  The seven main bottom end certainly is stout.  Years ago I had a tri power 200 in a 31 A fenderless hi boy sedan that was down rightous on the street. 

Rick

[markwill]

Hey, thanks for the quick reply Rick.  Yes, I'm considering the Aussie motor as an "evolutionary" phase.  I connected with a person there that is heavily involved in the small six program with connections here in the States.  I makes me chuckle to think how far that little engine has come.  Seven mains!  For now, it looks like a basic performance build up with one of the new CI aluminum heads. 

I was considering the 200 because of the bore x stroke ratio looks like it would rev higher than the 250.  However, the rod length looks like it would park those pistons a bit longer.  I'm targeting the E/Production class and would hate to give up the 50 extra inches.

[bearingburner]

Paul Calagurio holds several records in PP and Mini PP with a Falcon pickup using one of these engines and a 12 head from Argentina. Different from the Aussie head

[markwill]

Excellent.  Thank you for pointing me in his direction.  I read that the Argentian head was a good alternative to non-xflow head, but didn't know where to get info.

[dwarner]

In production class the port configuration must be OEM.

DW

[Rick Byrnes]

OOOOOOPPPPSSSS
I went to the book and Dan is perfectly correct.

However
The Falcon was available in Austrailia (i think) with the 250 cid crossflow head.  It was not sold in the U.S., but widely used elsewhere . 
While the rule book says "available at any automobile dealer"  it doesn't really specify the country of origin.

I know this is picking fly sh#* out of the pepper, but it is one of the issues I have been mulling over for some time.  What if Toyota came in with  a Skyline available only in Japan to run Production Supercharged would it be approved, even though you cant buy a sedan with the inline six capable of making a gazzilion hp in the U.S. ?  Or a Cosworth Escort of which 500 were made, but not sold in the U.S.

With a true world wide economy, this could actually happen.

I don't  really mean to put you on the spot Dan, and since you don't represent SCTA on this web site, if you choose to not respond, I'll understand.



Rick

[panic]

The X-flow head is nowhere near a bolt-in, and therefore couldn't be purchased any more than 426 hemi heads can be purchased for installation on a 426 wedge motor.
It can be done, but it's surgery.
In addition, the 250 was not offered in the Falcon, and didn't exist in 1962, and is not a direct swap since it's wider and taller with a different bellhousing.

[iamflagman]

Paul Calagurio holds several records in PP and Mini PP with a Falcon pickup using one of these engines and a 12 head from Argentina. Different from the Aussie head

Here's a photo of Paul's Falcon pickup.



I believe that he makes the trip down from Ontario, Canada and drives the Falcon all the way down and back.



JOHN FINN
HOPKINS, SC
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I MAY BE GETTING OLDER.............BUT I REFUSE TO GROW UP!!

[markwill]

Thanks for all the input guys.  I think I understand. 

Since the 250 was not offered in the 1962 US Falcon, it is considered an engine swap even though it's a larger version of the 144-170 engines that were available in 1962.  If my understanding is correct, it looks like my best bet for the year is the 260 V8.

[Sumner]

Thanks for all the input guys.  I think I understand. 

Since the 250 was not offered in the 1962 US Falcon, it is considered an engine swap even though it's a larger version of the 144-170 engines that were available in 1962.  If my understanding is correct, it looks like my best bet for the year is the 260 V8.

I'm probably missing something, but a 400 sbc wasn't available in a '55 chevy, but I don't think it is considered an engine swap???


Sum

[Rick Byrnes]

I'm in agreement with you Sum
Bore spacing is the same
cyl head bolt pattern the same
cam crank centerlines the same
Main caps the same
Longer stroke.
The 200 and 250 would fall into E class, and I fear not be really competetive with a "fully developed" short stroke V8 or a V6 that has lots more race development, relative to head flow and camshaft design. (really high lift)
I am a lover of the 200 engine though and had lots of fun with the old 31 and a Maverick with a slightly built 200, top loader 4 speed and 4.11and/or a 4.5:1 rear axle gear set. (easy to change a 9 inch.

Rick

[panic]

This then poses yet another question.
Do definitions of "stock", and "engine swap" appear in the rules?
IMHO the relationship between the 265 and 400 SBC is far, far more direct than 200-250, because they can actually be interchanged - and the 250 did not, cannot fit exactly where the 200 was, in addition to the deck height and crank differences.
To me, stock doesn't mean "anything that the same company ever made that has some common dimensions, even if it could not fit in the car and was never made during the life of the model". Stock means "the engine that did, or could have, come in that car".
If this were true, you would have Ford Boss 429 powered Edsels, 6.1 liter Hemi Magnums in 1956 Belvederes, LS1 1955 Corvettes, etc.

Anyone have exact wording or ruling?

[Dynoroom]

Panic, in the new '08 rule book we tried to tackel that very issue. Small block Fords had many different deck height too. So engine "family" & cylinder head type is what I think they are going to go by, I dont have a copy of the new rule book yet but it out. I look in my E-mails I've got the wording someplace. 

[markwill]

Thanks to all who are participating in this question.  In my professional life, I spend a lot of time looking at words and translating what is meant from what is written.  Hence my question.

SUM hit my confusion squarely on the head (no pun intended).  As I read it in the general definitions, a non-swap engine is one that has the same head configuration, exhaust pattern, and bell housing bolt pattern as the OEM offered engine.  However, before I went down a buy and build path for the 250 I-6, I wanted to be on firm ground.  I'm thinking I should email the ECTA Tech guys for an interpretation.

Thanks again.