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Author Topic: Good Idea?  (Read 6638 times)
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Kansas Bad Man
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« on: March 01, 2008, 12:36:36 PM »

This isn't my idea, but I think it's a good one.  Bub is going to have a big turnout in 2008,, and something has to be done to smooth out the operation.  The idea goes like this:

All streamliners would pit at the 10, 11, or 12, depending on the salt, and how much track Denis is able to get.  The slower bikes would pit at the 2, or get in line at the 2.  The faster sit-ons would it or get in line at the zero.  Communication between the starters at the zero the two, and the 10, 11, or 12, would all be in communication.  There would be no list, and the control of the runs would be in the hands of the starters.  There would be no question as to who goes first.  The number of bikes in the slow and the fast bikes groups would be added up.  If there were 100 bikes in the fast bike group, the ones at the zero, they would say, represent running 10 bikes.  Say, if there was 200 at the slow bikes, they would represent 20 bikes.  The streamliners wouldn't be included in the numbering system.

The streamliners, when ready, that is to say, the rider is in the cockpit, suited up, strapped in, and ready to go, would have priority over the mix that would be running.  The streamliner crew chief would notify the starting judge that they were ready to go. 

The reason for the priority is wind conditions. 

The starting judge at the 12, 11, or 10, would notify 2 and 0, there's a liner hot to go.  If at the zero 10 bikes were being run, if would only take approximately 3 minutes, if it was in the middle of a run, or at the start of a run to clear the track.  They would be clearing the track to the left.  There wouldn't be a problem with a streamliner having a clear course all the way to the zero, as the sit on bikes don't have to line their bikes up to the track.  The track would be clear at the zero.  As most st
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 12:49:25 PM »

(Ran out of time)

As most streamliners take only 2 minutes or maybe a little less or a little more, to make a run, the streamliner, in actual fact, would take less time to make runs than any sit on bike.  If the streamliner was going for a record and ran over the record, there would be an area at the zero for turn around.  If the streamliner didn't exceed the record speed, the liner would be picked up and taken back to the 10, 11, or 12. 

Streamliners would only be competing against other streamliners as far as the wind window is concerned.  First come first served on that.  The only priority on the wind window would be if a liner was at the zero, and was ready to go within 10 minutes of a streamliner making a run at the 10, 11, or 12.    The liner at the zero would not be allowed to line up on the track until he was ready to go for the record. 

Streamliners starting from the 10, 11,or 12, would veer to the left if in trouble, or had to abort.  The slow and the fast sit ons would veer to the right on their runs.  The fast bikes that would be starting from the zero and got the full course for a return record run would be coordinated with the 10, 11, and 12 starter as far as turn around, and having priority meeting their window for their return run.  Shouldn't be a problem. 

Do you feel as I do?  Is this a good idea or not?

                                        Max
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bvillercr
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 01:01:03 PM »

I don't think there is enough good salt for that many miles.
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JackD
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2008, 01:49:26 PM »

To set, as written today, a new LSR record requires only 2 Runs within the required time frame, and direction, that exceed the standing record minimum with their average.
Unless it is a standing rule of the host sanction body, the first run does not require that it  exceed any previous mark, only the average of the 2. 
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ol38y
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »

Why have the liners line up at the 10 11 or 12 initially and not the 0?

As far as the bikes lining up at the 0 or 2, something like that has to be done. Get rid of that list. Personally, I'm giving them one more chance. If it goes like it did last year I'll not be back again. In line for 10 hours is not my idea of racing, especially when I saw others make at least 3 runs.

Larry
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Larry Cason
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2010 BUB 1350 M-PG record
2012 Speedweek  1350 A-PG record 169.975
2014 El Mirage Dry Lake  1350 A-PG  172.651
Sumner
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2008, 05:00:43 PM »



I'm a car guy, so I'm staying out of this, but I would like to know if your liner is now a "sit-on" and which mile marker do you plan to leave from  cool  huh ,

Sum
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

I don't think there is enough good salt for that many miles.

You're probably right.  I'm certain you're right for the 12.  Hopefully we can get 10 miles for the Bub 2008. 
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 05:25:37 PM »

To set, as written today, a new LSR record requires only 2 Runs within the required time frame, and direction, that exceed the standing record minimum with their average.
Unless it is a standing rule of the host sanction body, the first run does not require that it  exceed any previous mark, only the average of the 2. 

Jack, you're absolutely right on all counts.  As usual.  The reason I suggested going over the existing record was to eliminate the guys that know how to play the game.  A bike in a certain class that has no ability to set the record in that class can, after he is given the go, and he has stated (as it was last year) that it was for a record run, no matter what the speed might be, was guaranteed a back up run in two hours.  If the meet had 10 hours of run time each day, and the optimum time between runs was three minutes, which was a Ha Ha, and say that there were 300 bikes, (there will be more), lets see.  60 minutes in an hour, 10 hours would be 600 minutes, 300 into 600 is 2 minutes.  Falling short of the amount of bikes that could be run in a given day by--well--quite a few.

With the existing rule, the fellow who has no hope for a record makes 2 runs for sure, and is guaranteed by the rule.  To carry this thought further, some individuals at the Bub Meet would not only use this, but they would have a runner that would put their bikes number back on the list prior to the back up run.  Knowing that their number on the list wouldn't be called until after the back up run, but would jump way ahead of others.  Some of these guys were actually getting in four runs a day. 

This is the reason that I suggest, for the Bub Meet, record runs meet a simple criteria, that the initial run for the record must be above the existing record to qualify for the back up record run.  This would be a much more fair situation than last year for all of the participants. 

                                 Max   
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 05:48:23 PM »

Why have the liners line up at the 10 11 or 12 initially and not the 0?

As far as the bikes lining up at the 0 or 2, something like that has to be done. Get rid of that list. Personally, I'm giving them one more chance. If it goes like it did last year I'll not be back again. In line for 10 hours is not my idea of racing, especially when I saw others make at least 3 runs.

Larry

The reason for liners to start at the 10, 11, or 12, as for safety reasons, and to speed up the meet to allow for more runs.  For instance, Day 4 of last years meet, three liners were in front of our liner entry.  We were at the zero.  The first liner had a throttle cable problem, which they were fixing.  The starter judge didn't put another liner in line to by pass the liner with the throttle cable until a full 10 minutes had passed.  Keep in mind that the track was closed down and no other bikes were run.  The decision was made to bring up the next liner in line.  That liner went on it's side about 2 or 300 yards from the zero.  That took 12 minutes to get him off of the course.  Then the next liner was brought up, also by passing the liner that had the throttle problem.  A repeat of liner number two occurred.  The liner went on it's side about 2 or 300 yards from the zero.  This time it took 15 minutes to get it off the course.  A total of 37 minutes with no bikes run.  If the liners were  launched at the 10, 11, or 12, this wouldn't have occurred.  As all of the track delay wouldn't come into play, as the sit-ons don't require the full course for safety shut down distance.  They could have easily continued running sit-on bikes for that 37 minutes without any compromise of safety.  This is only one example.  There are many more. 

                                    Max
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 05:53:34 PM »



I'm a car guy, so I'm staying out of this, but I would like to know if your liner is now a "sit-on" and which mile marker do you plan to leave from  cool  huh ,

Sum

Mmmm....that's food for thought, car guy.  Let's see.  I'm going for the FIM and the AMA records for side car streamliners and streamliner.   That would be 4 different record attempts.  Let's see.  That sit-on thing is an idea.  Mmmm.

I suppose I'll be leaving from wherever the powers that be tell me I can leave from.
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JackD
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 06:27:03 PM »

The 2 hour window from start to complete , only applies to the FIM entries, and that reduces the field to lesser number.
I suspect a more managable plan is under consideration, and the input from the entries will be a valuable asset.
Even if the entrants don't provide a workable answer, it does demonstrate the areas of concern. wink
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"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
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bak189
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2008, 06:36:40 PM »

AMA Racing Supplemental Regulations 2007

1.E. Qualifying
When attempting to break a existing record,
on completion of the first of the two runs, the motorcycle will be considered qualified for record return pass if the speed is within 5% or above the existing record for that class

FIM Return runs 2 Hours
AMA Return runs within the same calender day
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JackD
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2008, 08:35:12 PM »

The 5% rule is a development that began with the BUB meets to hopefully reduce the traffic, and really doesn't accomplish that if they run all entries as they line up at the appropriate distance, and from both directions.
With only 1 starter that moved to each of the starting points in order, it would prevent opposing runs and false starts.
The job of the starter includes the final OK to run after they have assured that everything is in place, and is a little more complicated that waving bye-bye. wink
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"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
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landracing
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2008, 08:46:23 PM »

I think there is a good plan in sight for the BUB meet.

There has been some revisions suggested for the whole meet. I think there is going to be some changes made. Will it suit everybody probably not. Will it make the meet more successfull, I think so.  Will EVERYBODY be happy? Probably not. But at some point you have to try something else... if all get to make runs it will be successfull.
At one point last year the Timers were able to run an entrant every 3 1/2 minutes. Pretty acceptable.

Dealing with the stuff that slows the meet down will be key... getting streamliners strapped in and ready, continue running when FIM qualifiers are on the clock, dealing with problem vehicles stopping on course, dealing with vehicles running longer or under power after the timing lights, getting off course in timely manner (doesnt take a 150 mph motorcycle 5 miles to get off course), interviewing bikes that go in excess of 240 mph, they state they can leave the course in less then a mile without any problems. So 150-175 mph bikes should be able to get off within that.

Now the enforcement of the rules will be the other key. If you slow the meet down you prevent your competitors from running.

Jon
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landracing
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2008, 08:55:17 PM »

If it would be up to me, I would elimate the 5% rule. Most records are from the 1970's. If you can compete with that with todays technology, by going over the record, then people should review their operation, unless they are there for fun.

Over the record or get back in line.

Jon
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