Rake and Trail

[JackD]

Kent is pretty close for a kid, a fast learner about learning how and why things go fast.

[willieworld]

kent i never advised anyone to use 50 degrees of rake i just said i do --there you go with the horror storys again now it involves death --i wish that you would at least come up with facts because if im in danger i would like for you to show me not just make up another horror story --prove what you say i dont think you can --we all have our own opinion and i think thats all it is im from missouri  show me i dont think you can      willie buchta 
             i said 34 to 38 degrees on a ridgid frame  go back and read the post
             as far as flop goes we are limited to 15 degrees of steering from straight ahead   no flop at 52.2 degrees of rake (measured it today)

[interested bystander]

Evry now and then there's a poster on this website that's kind of a "burr under the saddle" to the rest of us!

If yer ridin' bare back the pain is more personal !

[willieworld]

just say the word anyone and i wont post here again  thanks  willie buchta

[Stainless1]

Evry now and then there's a poster on this website that's kind of a "burr under the saddle" to the rest of us!

If yer ridin' bare back the pain is more personal !

Yea at one time or another about everyone has offended someone or everyone,
Advise to all,
IT'S A FORUM...
Keep Posting Your Opinions and what is working for you.
IT'S A FORUM.
Keep Posting your opposing view to what someone else says works for them
IT'S A FORUM.
At times gang mentality may rule, but a forum is where we can talk openly.  If you think it works, say so, if you think it won't, you can say that too... IT'S A FORUM.
 

[bak189]

Oh, come on now people.......lets agree to disagree.......I don't claim to be a expert on M/C
chassis.........I have only been at it for over 55 years, and still learning.  Back in the 1970's
Harley Davidson liked our roadrace chassis and so did Honda and "Fast Freddy" had high praise
for our stuff.  This kind of input has certainly
helped me in my way of thinking of what works.
One person, who in my opinion. really knew what made M/C frames work, was the late Ray Hensley
of "Trackmaster" fame.  I had the pleasure in working and consulting with the "master" for many years.  Building frames for "dirt track"
and making them work well is a special art.........
and Ray knew the "art"..........Right Ack..............

[isiahstites]

Oh, come on now people.......lets agree to disagree.......I don't claim to be a expert on M/C
chassis.........I have only been at it for over 55 years, and still learning.  Back in the 1970's
Harley Davidson liked our roadrace chassis and so did Honda and "Fast Freddy" had high praise
for our stuff.  This kind of input has certainly
helped me in my way of thinking of what works.
One person, who in my opinion. really knew what made M/C frames work, was the late Ray Hensley
of "Trackmaster" fame.  I had the pleasure in working and consulting with the "master" for many years.  Building frames for "dirt track"
and making them work well is a special art.........
and Ray knew the "art"..........Right Ack..............

So in your 55 years of experience what is your view on this rake and trail topic?

Scott

[isiahstites]

Ummmm Scott or Kent......

For those of us keeping score at home, what did / does Randy tell you to do about the rake and trail?

Thanks

Mark

Randy likes the number 35 for rake and has told me I could go as far as 40 but that he would not go any further. He runs some of the drag bikes at 40. He has been pretty busy at the shop and I have "tried" to leave him alone. Monday I will ask him about the trail portion because I am at that point before I move any further I need to know what it is going to be at the different rake angles.

I will post any thing worth mentioning Monday evening , if this thread is still going.

Scott

[hawkwind]

If you are interested in all things motorcycle chassis then IMHO one of the leading experts in this field is a bloke by the name of Tony Foale , lay your hands on is books, read  and start to be educated ,I was  , he has academic training (phd in mech& elec engineering) has been a lifelong  racer/rider ,and has designed and fabricated some exceptional motorcycles ,he also conducted some remarkable practical experiments on 'rake & trail'
cheers
Gary

[bak189]

Straight line solo bike.....no less than 28degrees
.....no more than 32degrees......3.50inches of trail


Or better yet....leave it alone......

[willieworld]

see what i mean everyone has a different openion me included --i have a hard time putting my thoughts on paper there is probibly some fancy name for it --but let me say this as long as we just get on this site and voice our openions loudly and argue none of us are going to learn anything and i thought that was what this site was all about --i think we are all in the same boat er lake everyone on this site knows something that could save someone else a lot of work--someone told me a long time ago that all of the knowlege of mankind was written on a piece of paper somewhere true maybe but i dont read so good so sometimes i rely on this site for an answer to my question so far it and everyone has been a great help but please dont try to scare me with horror stories it didnt work when i was a kid and it wont work now --i have built a lot of contraptions in my life i always ride what i build before any one else does --i wouldnt build anyone anything that i thought they would get  hurt on because of me no matter how much money was offered and i wouldnt give anyone advice on anything unless i had some experince on the subject--this is the most ive ever typed i think ill take a nap   willie buchta

[willieworld]

couldnt sleep  look guys i really need some help here there is a lot of things that i know nothing about one is aerodynamics (or spelling) im getting ready to build a new bike for bonneville 08 of course a sidecar does anyone familiar with the sidecar rules have any suggestions   thanks  willie buchta

[JackD]

For the singular purpose of going really fast on a natural surface, Kent explained it the best and Tony explains it the most.
Lack of directional stability due to tire spin, frame flex, inconsistent surface, and wind forces, require a little different consideration than anything you might experience any other place.
Many modern street bikes are actually pretty good and represent a lot of development on the part of the OEM that must consider a lot more than one might imagine.

[ack]

Oh, come on now people.......lets agree to disagree.......I don't claim to be a expert on M/C
chassis.........I have only been at it for over 55 years, and still learning.  Back in the 1970's
Harley Davidson liked our roadrace chassis and so did Honda and "Fast Freddy" had high praise
for our stuff.  This kind of input has certainly
helped me in my way of thinking of what works.
One person, who in my opinion. really knew what made M/C frames work, was the late Ray Hensley
of "Trackmaster" fame.  I had the pleasure in working and consulting with the "master" for many years.  Building frames for "dirt track"
and making them work well is a special art.........
and Ray knew the "art"..........Right Ack..............

Straight line solo bike.....no less than 28degrees
.....no more than 32degrees......3.50inches of trail


Or better yet....leave it alone......

For the singular purpose of going really fast on a natural surface, Kent explained it the best and Tony explains it the most.
Lack of directional stability due to tire spin, frame flex, inconsistent surface, and wind forces, require a little different consideration than anything you might experience any other place.
Many modern street bikes are actually pretty good and represent a lot of development on the part of the OEM that must consider a lot more than one might imagine.

Listen to your elders.

Besides any one old enough to know Ray and is not being fed purred peas and remains somewhat coherent deserves some respect.

[bak189]

Thanks Ack, (I think) you have a gift with words.
As Jack noted, a lot of time and money is spend by the manufacture on developing their new
chassis and frames.  And many are not developed in house........they are sub-contracted
to so called outside "experts". The new BMW and also the Harley V-Rod come to mind.  Some
"heavy" thinking has gone into the new Rotax
powered Buell chassis......again with some outside
help.  Thus my point "better yet leave it alone"
We have some very fast "busa's" running with
stock rake and trail and they appear to be fairly
stable.