Author Topic: methanol  (Read 7032 times)

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Offline flatman

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methanol
« on: December 22, 2007, 02:49:52 PM »
I'm running a blown flathead and last year I melted holes in my cylinder heads (too lean).  In addition to retarding my timing and running bigger jets (pretty obvious) would it make sense to burn methanol rather that gas?  I don't know much about it other that it burns a lot cooler.

Thanks
Jerry Wortman 

Sorry I just realized that this should be a tech question.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 03:08:33 PM by flatman »

Offline Harold Bettes

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Re: methanol
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 04:41:41 PM »
Please see my comments in response under your posting in EFI. :? :-o

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HB2 :-D
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Offline Harold Bettes

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Re: Methanol
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 04:52:22 PM »
Use methanol if it doesn't punish you class wise or is more beneficial record wise.  :wink: In a short response, methanol carries some of its own oxygen with it and is generally forgiving in tune-up. It will generally make more power even with liquid coming out of the pipes. Although you have found that it needs lots more fuel than gasoline, it has the potential to make more power than gasoline. Somewhere around 6-7% more at peak power and about 11% more at peak torque. 8-) Methanol is very prone to preignite regardless of the compression ratio. :roll:

Be sure that if you use carburetors that the "high speed" circuit is capable of handling more fuel. :lol:

Try and get some chassis dyno time before you go to the salt this next time so that you can get a handle on getting the right amount of fuel and spark so that your flatmotor will be happy! :-D

Regards to All,
HB2 :-)
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another.

Offline jackson

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Re: methanol
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 06:30:24 PM »
You might want to specify what you are working with as far as the motor goes.  Maybe someone here has run something similar and can give you an idea where to start on the tune with methanol.  I can give a long story of how the learning curve can be steep going from gas on a carburetor to meth with a mechanical injector.  We got tons of advice from guys on the salt, to Steve Kinser's sprint car crew.  Still, I can't read the plugs on methanol.  It may sound like a crude tuning method, but our car runs best when we lean it until it is shooting ducks out the exhaust at take off and cleans up about the 1/2 mile.  The only thing I can read on methanol is aluminum on the plugs.     

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Methanol
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 08:05:20 PM »
Jerry:

From the way you worded the question I'm not sure you realize that you need to use way more methanol for the same amount of air than you do gasoline. This means that the jets have to be much larger and in many cases some of the carburetor passages may have to be opened up as well. Several of the curburetor specialists can do this work and get the jetting pretty close to start with if you give them the specs on the engine and a rough density altitude for where you'll be running. After that alky makes more power and is pretty forgiving on the tune up.

Pete

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: methanol
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 08:13:24 PM »
That's starting to get a little too close!

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Methanol
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 10:06:15 PM »
I'm not an expert but this is how I started. There is a chart I believe it's by Enderle but it could be Hilborn; it has the AREA of holes in the jets or nozzles. They are in square inches. I took the area of the nozzles I was using and doubled them. Not the diameter...the area. This was the spot to start with for alcohol over gasoline. I didn't stay with the alcohol very long but it was spot on.

If you are using injection remember the barrel valve must be able to handle the fuel you want to run as well as the pump. I used a 7 to 10% leakdown on the valve for starting and worked from there..Squirt in some gasoline for starting a cold engine .....Good Luck
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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: methanol
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2007, 10:22:13 AM »
Switching from gas to methanol won't cure a lean condition. If that's your problem you can have it with any fuel.

Methanol will put you in the fuel class.

The stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1. Methanol is 6.4:1 Your fuel calculations will require running more than twice as much. Methanol does run cooler. The vaporization in the intake can cause ice on a cool day.
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Offline flatman

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Re: methanol
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2007, 11:24:56 AM »
Thanks for all the info.  I understand that methanol requires roughly double the flow as compared to gas.  It would seem to me that at Bonneville temps that methanol would run better with less stress on the engine.
As for records, I have no illusions about setting any.  You guys that have been doing this for years are the experts and I'll never go really fast.  I'm a street rod dropout and I'm just happy to participate with guys who know a whole lot more that me.  I built my 35 Ford for nostalgia drag racing and Bonneville is just an added bonus.  I was just happy to pass tech last year!
Thanks again for your help.
Jerry Wortman 

Offline Sumner

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Re: methanol
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2007, 04:33:04 PM »
Thanks for all the info.  I understand that methanol requires roughly double the flow as compared to gas.  It would seem to me that at Bonneville temps that methanol would run better with less stress on the engine.
As for records, I have no illusions about setting any.  You guys that have been doing this for years are the experts and I'll never go really fast.  I'm a street rod dropout and I'm just happy to participate with guys who know a whole lot more that me.  I built my 35 Ford for nostalgia drag racing and Bonneville is just an added bonus.  I was just happy to pass tech last year!
Thanks again for your help.
Jerry Wortman 

Here is Jerry's car and check out the flathead powered hydroplane and who originally built the motor:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-5/7472-2007.html

Sum