Modified and special construction.

[willieworld]

we have a winner thanks stainless looks like i missed the part of that rule --the rule says 7.f  "bikes that meet the requirments for the modified production class by defination cannot run in special construction class"
7.g  "a bike entered in the special construction class cannot be entered in a modified production class entry within the same racing season"  -- that is pretty easy to understand even for me - cant believe i overlooked that half of a sentence after reading the book 200 times  --thanks everyone for your imput thats what this forum is supposed to be about  again thanks - --  dean   what did you do with your very low red bike  would like to see it again   willie buchta

[JackD]

If the unlimited nature of the "A" bike needs protection from the more restrictive ,and dreaded "M" bike, perhaps something is wrong . 

[dwarner]

Jack,

"The only reason modified production bikes can be competitive in special construction at all is because not enough people build special construction frames."

It's not protection, it's a lack of competition.

DW

[Stainless1]

Willie, you didn't really want to build a clone frame anyway did you?  I've seen your work up close and when we talked about your SC scooter, I could tell you were a special construction sort of guy.  ( I was gonna say altered, but it made you seem a little crazy... but wait, wow, you are just a little crazy....)  Now get back to work on those bikes so we can watch you work...

[JackD]

Jack,

"The only reason modified production bikes can be competitive in special construction at all is because not enough people build special construction frames."

It's not protection, it's a lack of competition.

DW

The weapon of choice for the fastest bikes that are run by those with the most experience and resources is a sit up bike derived from an OEM, with very few exceptions.
That is the case for all of the LSR events and locations.
To protect them from a more restrictive bike only perpetuates the lack of incentive for development of what should be a faster vehicle.
How many records have been obsoleted now by virtue of protectionist rule changes and are still in the book ?
Is it more than 100?
When they are allowed to drift away from the cars so far, and so easy, they are headed out the door.
The engine swap, replacement cases, and over bore allowance are a few examples.
Without competition at their heels, they will be safe on top of "Bandini Mountain."

[aswracing]

If you have a modified production based frame, run it there.

I have two bikes that have production frames. Both of them were bumped to "A" because they have aftermarket cases.

I got no notice whatsoever on that change, no chance to comment, nothing. I found out about it shortly after building up one of the motors and spending thousands on aftermarket cases, as the bike had been breaking factory cases.

A rules making process that excludes the racers from reviewing and commenting is broken.

[willieworld]

i am sure that the indian would fit in production and  modified production they were made near where i live the bikes came with an S&S or revtech motor in the end indian built there own motors   just a thought

isnt there a provision to upgrade to aftermarket cases for safety reasons or reliabilty if there is no performance advantage-if there isnt submit it to the rules committee --i went to the rules committee meeting this year and was surprised at the lack of rule application changes submitted and everything that was submitted was discused  willie buchta

[JackD]

There are a number of existing records in the book now that have been selected for a class spec change that is not related to safety and those records remain in the book.
Dave Campos and the push rod double and how many push rod motors in M set records with aftermarket cases ?
The lack of communication and knee jerk enforcement of invalid interpretations has cause the bikers to give up and just keep their heads down as they drift off to other events.

[oz]

I love the building of the bikes and will always prefer somethin I have built myself I dont really see how something with a stock frame can be considered special construction.I appreciate how much work goes into these engines that some of you guys use but i still dont see as to how that constitutes special construction(Even though there is alot of thought engineering and skill) its like re spraying a stock bike changing the rear view mirrors and calling it a chop.
Not trying to offend anyone but it dont make sense to me!
I will shut up now.
OZ

[Stainless1]

Oz, you will not find anyone to argue the "doesn't make sense" part, many of us in modified were forced to special construction because of unannounced rule changes.  We were in impound when we learned our interpretation of the 10% rule was not the same as theirs...
But don't worry, lots of us foreigners (those not from California) landspeed race, some of us for a long time....

[frogpirate]

Stainless, are you refering to the 10% wheelbase rule? Before I go and rake out the Blast and add 5", am I going to get moved to 'A' even though this is less than 10% more than the stock 55.5" wheelbase?

Thanks, Uber-newbie-Ken

[Stainless1]

Frog,
does the book say it is 55.5?  If so, measure it first.  I was a little surprised to find my 55.5 wheelbase was with the rear axle adjusted all the way forward, tight forward and was still measured 55.625.  My thought was if the stock wheelbase could be 57.5 with the axle to the rear, then I could add 5.75 and be legal at  63.25... wrong!  If the book says 55.5 then anything over 61.05 is illegal in M and must be in A.  So measure very carefully... and don't bet on being in the number if the chain gets a little loose....

[willieworld]

frogpirate  let me make sure that I understand cause I think I missed something somewhere  You are building a 500cc buell b-last for modified production where you pretty much have to run a stock frame where you have to run a 1.32 gallon gas tank  where the foot rest must be ahead of the rear axle at least 6 inches where you have to sit above the rear tire  where the record in M pushrod gas is 120 mph at Bonneville  when you could run in special construction you can run any frame you want  you can run any size gas tank you want you can run the foot rest anywhere you want  you can sit anywhere you want  you can run with the engine anywhere you want  you can run forks or center hub steering  you can run any single or dual combination of engines   any wheel base unless you decide to put a side car than the wheel base restriction is 110  and in A pushrod gas the record at Bonneville is 98.208  did I miss something

willie buchta

[Nortonist 592]

Just one thing.  Kenneth Leaf took his A/PG record back at Bonneville with an average of 112+.

[willieworld]

o k buts its still 8 mph and much more freedom to be creative  and i know if he builds a mp he can still run in a -if he builds an a he cant run in mp  willie