Author Topic: e85 question  (Read 18668 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline team_cougar

  • Mercury Cougar go fast punk
  • New folks
  • Posts: 27
e85 question
« on: November 25, 2007, 03:01:46 PM »
Hi,
If I convert my Cougar to run on E85, since I'm a hippie type at heart, will it still be in the gas class since I'm using a gas blend?
I haven't gotten my rulebooks yet in the mail, so I don't know if it's already been covered...
Andy White
Huntersville NC
1970 Mercury Cougar

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13158
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: e85 question
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 03:11:10 PM »
I think this has been covered, and I think it won't be considered "gas" since it's 85% ethanol.  And to have it "legal" for gas class you'll have to get it from the event fuel vendor, and that implies the race sanctioning organisation will have to convince the vendor to bring some to the track.

Then there's the misconception that the E85 is "environmentally" friendly, but that's a political discussion and I won't go into it here.  If you want to chat -- email me directly.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline team_cougar

  • Mercury Cougar go fast punk
  • New folks
  • Posts: 27
Re: e85 question
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 03:33:32 PM »
Roger that, Slim.
Andy White
Huntersville NC
1970 Mercury Cougar

Offline Dean Los Angeles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: e85 question
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 07:43:17 PM »
The question was posted in ECTA so I wonder how they handle gasoline. Is there an event gas? Do they hold a dielectric constant and test? The SCTA standard is a D.C. of 2.3

Quote

Q: What is the definition of Dielectric Constant?

A: The dielectric constant (DC) of a substance is a measure of the relative effectiveness of that substance as an electrical insulator.  The perfect electrical insulator is a vacuum, which has a DC of 1.00000.  By comparison, air has a DC of 1.00059, almost the same as a vacuum, and water has a DC value of 78.2.  A dielectric meter measures the relative DC of gasoline by measuring the difference in capacitance of the probe between a standard (usually cyclohexane, with true DC value of 2.025) and the gasoline sample. 

Q: Why is measurement of this characteristic an effective test for gasoline?

A: Gasoline as refined is a mixture of pure hydrocarbons.  A unique physical property of a pure hydrocarbon fluid is that its DC is virtually the lowest of any liquid. The addition of power enhancing additives to gasoline, such as some oxygen and nitrogen bearing compounds, cause gasoline's DC to rise dramatically. A gasoline dielectric tester thus provides a simple, reliable way of determining whether a competitor's fuel has been adulterated.

Adding Ethanol to gasoline will increase the oxygen component. Ethanol is C2H5OH. Gasoline formulations don't have oxygen.

Running E85 would give a huge advantage over gasoline.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

dwarner

  • Guest
Re: e85 question
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 10:43:53 PM »
Didn't GM Performance run a Cobalt a couple of years ago in the fuel classes with E85 as the fuel of choice and set some records? 

It seems to me that a bunch of GM students can race just as hard as anyone on the salt and move to the top of the list in their class. These kids are the future of LSR.

DW .

Offline team_cougar

  • Mercury Cougar go fast punk
  • New folks
  • Posts: 27
Re: e85 question
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 12:50:46 PM »
So, does this mean that E85 would be placed in an alcohol class despite being a pump fuel?
Or, does it mean I can't run it since I can't get it from the track supplier?
Or both?  :?
Andy White
Huntersville NC
1970 Mercury Cougar

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13158
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: e85 question
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 01:03:47 PM »
Yup, to the former (I'm pretty sure).

Ditto Yup to the latter, unless Rick Gold decides to bring some, and even then I don't know if it'll be legal for gas classes.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Sumner

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4078
  • Blanding, Ut..a small dot in the middle of nowhere
    • http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/sumnerindex.html
Re: e85 question
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 01:12:35 PM »
.................... unless Rick Gold decides to bring some, and even then I don't know if it'll be legal for gas classes.

I don't see anyway that it could be considered in the gas class no mater if it came from a pump or Rick.  If you read the latest mags, guys are doing really impressive stuff with it that is not possible on gas.

c ya,

Sum

Offline team_cougar

  • Mercury Cougar go fast punk
  • New folks
  • Posts: 27
Re: e85 question
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 01:25:12 PM »
Thanks guys.

So, what's the octane of the gasoline fuel(s) used at the track?
Andy White
Huntersville NC
1970 Mercury Cougar

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13158
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: e85 question
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 04:06:08 PM »
I'm not positive what available at Maxton (haven't run there in a year and a half), but at Bonneville there's usually some unleaded 100 and 104, and leaded 110, 114, 117, maybe some more flavors, too.  All of the gasolines at the track are allowed in "gas" classes. 

If you've got a specific favorite that's made by a different manufacturer -- for instance, you want to run VP -- consider contacting the sanctioning organisation and ask if they will allow you to bring a sealed-at-the-factory can of your flavor choice, open the can while under supervision, fill your tank while being observed, and then have your tank sealed.  You might get away with it.

But -- the fuel vendors have a selection available, and since most of the racers will use track gas -- see if you can purchase a sample of the track gas before the meet, tune your motor on that fuel, and then support the venodr by buying from him at the track.  That's a good way to do it.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
Re: e85 question
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 02:28:17 AM »
nope VP wont fly in gas class.... Rick Gold pays dearly to bring gas and fuel to the events and none of the other makers wont come out to help us.... so we should support those venders that support us and buy his fuel.... he will ship 5 gal pails and 15gal mini drums to ya for tuning... rick is also very knowledgable about his products....call him for a chat about what fuels will work for ya.
kent

Offline team_cougar

  • Mercury Cougar go fast punk
  • New folks
  • Posts: 27
Re: e85 question
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 07:29:42 AM »
It's not a major issue for me. If I convert my car to E85, I can just change the carb and drain the fuel to run gasoline at Maxton.
My 429 is going to run on 87 octane anyway, so I don't think 100+ will be a problem.
I was just wondering.

And, I'm all about supporting people who support LSR. So, I'll just run Gas.

How do I get in touch with the elusive Mr Gold?
Andy White
Huntersville NC
1970 Mercury Cougar

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8948
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: e85 question
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 09:50:11 AM »
TC, while VP and all the others won't fly at Bonneville, you need to contact someone at ECTA, heck, they might even start E85 racing classes, they are not as locked up as the scta....  :roll:
Contact info is available at the link on the homepage of this site...
have some fun...
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13158
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: e85 question
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 10:16:10 AM »
Andy:

Try this address, attention Rick Gold:  ercracingfuels@sbcglobal.net

Jon
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

jrproflo

  • Guest
Re: e85 question
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 11:56:43 AM »
Who was the individual or company providing the event gas at Maxton for the October meet? Will the same company be there for 2008?