Author Topic: Fuel shutoffs  (Read 10998 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2007, 10:22:11 AM »
Ok will check on the braided lines might just do em as matter of course which stainless reckons is the way to go but think I might leave the tubes from the distribution blocks to nozzles they are solid stainless tubes they aint going to burn through are they.
Thanks Fellas Oz

Oz, the distribution blocks are after the pumps and solenoids, no firesleeve requirement. 
We used solid stainless lines from the blocks to nozzles on one of our motors.  We had issues with the things not vibrating at the same frequency, so check regularly for cracks and leaks.  Most of the event gases will leave a stain.  The next one we built we used #3 stainless braid line, yes it was more expensive, but we didn't spend a lot of time on complicated bends and no issues with cracks. 
There are torque specs for B nuts, be careful not to over-tighten them if you use solid line as that starts a crack.  Don't build straight lines, put an expansion bend or a 90 degree bend in all of them.
Just our experience, other experiences may vary....
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline oz

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 10:33:16 AM »
Nice one that did concern me actually as there is no facility on the distribution blocks for support and the solenoids are biguns. When you set the bike up with the braided lines did you have to change the injectors or is there a way around it coz stainless does have a habit of cracking with vibration also you mention event gases does this mean when i eventually get out there I wont have to travell to Reno or Salt lake city to get go go gas.
 
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 11:20:20 AM »
ERC has brought all types of fuels to the events for many years.  Almost any fuel or gas you need will be on the salt.

If you can install a hard line on your injector, you can install a braided one.  We used #3 since it fit directly on the N2O injector we had. 

Pay attention to your pill size selection and flow everything, every #26 jet does not necessarily flow the same amount.  The correct mixture will make the motor sing, a little lean will make it smoke.... but only for a second or 2...
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline oz

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2007, 05:14:34 AM »
Rich is your friend is ingrained forever in my mind now, is the braided line the same as used in braking systems ptfe lined or is it something different,Do they seat ok on the jets with those little brass ferules as used in braking systems as they usually have a small tube inserted into them or does the jet kinda go into that?
Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2007, 09:53:20 AM »
We used the #3 ptfe line with steel AN ends.  The AN ends seat against the jet that is inserted in the N2O injector.  We used these
http://www.holley.com/13700NOS.asp
placed in the intake track after the carbs, spraying directly into the valves.
The jets you can see on the same website were brass and formed the seat for the AN fitting. 
Don't trust the mixture suggested by the manufacturers for jet selection, can't stress that enough or too many times....  They don't think about N2O for more than a couple of seconds, you will be using it longer at Bonneville.  If you use their jet combinations, run a higher dynamic fuel pressure than they suggest.  We used a combination of jets and fuel pressures to ensure proper mixtures. 
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline oz

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2007, 10:32:31 AM »
Looks like the same nozzles, mine are s/s but thats neither here or there, iwas intending on using an external fuel injector pump i think it will run @ 3bar but dont quote me on that as I aint bought it yet and I was going to run the system off the bike first to calculate the ratio of gas/nitrous used 5-1 I think you mentioned in our previous conversation and will start with a nozzle that should deliver around 40-50 hp calculate the weight drop in nitrous and then work it so i get 5 times the drop in weight in gas as its the only way i can figure in doing it.
On another subject a good freind of mine who prepares rally cars has suggested fogging water into the airbox tohelp with the altitude variation and any chances of detination with the nitrous, not methanol and water just water,which raises another question if you use water does that limit you to fuel class or is water ok to run in gas class.
Complicated aint it i think i might have to put in another 10 hp just to carry the weight of all the pumps.
 
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Offline Sumner

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2007, 10:42:25 AM »
Looks like the same nozzles, mine are s/s but thats neither here or there, iwas intending on using an external fuel injector pump i think it will run @ 3bar but dont quote me on that as I aint bought it yet and I was going to run the system off the bike first to calculate the ratio of gas/nitrous used 5-1 I think you mentioned in our previous conversation and will start with a nozzle that should deliver around 40-50 hp calculate the weight drop in nitrous and then work it so i get 5 times the drop in weight in gas as its the only way i can figure in doing it.
On another subject a good freind of mine who prepares rally cars has suggested fogging water into the airbox tohelp with the altitude variation and any chances of detination with the nitrous, not methanol and water just water,which raises another question if you use water does that limit you to fuel class or is water ok to run in gas class.
Complicated aint it i think i might have to put in another 10 hp just to carry the weight of all the pumps.
 

Here water injection is ok with gas and won't change your class, but I don't understand the question as it sounds like you are thinking of nitrous only and that will be the fuel class.  There you could run a methanol/water injection with no problem.

Are you planning on running both gas and fuel??  If so you would just need to show them (drink it) that there is water only in the water injection.  You do that and get it sealed at the fuel truck.

c ya,

Sum

Offline oz

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2007, 10:56:54 AM »
just water but thinkin about it whats methanol and orange like can you drink that and yes i was /am still thinkin about running in both classes
cheers Sum
Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2007, 04:00:55 PM »
just water but thinkin about it whats methanol and orange like can you drink that and yes i was /am still thinkin about running in both classes
cheers Sum
methanol and orange .... no don't drink that it can be bad for your eyes....
ethanol and orange, yep, or grape, with grape we mixed it in a large bucket, called it purple Jesus... the first sip would always make you say Jesus......
So if you want to use ethanol, you could sample it without health problems, except maybe catching your breath....
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline El Wayno

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2007, 04:04:30 PM »
Methanol and orange tastes like death.
Stick with the ethanol.

More than one idiot in a lab has died drinking the wrong one. Don't just label it alcohol. :-D

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2007, 04:27:53 PM »
Didn't I read someplace that ethanol (as sold for fuel) has a couple of percent of something-or-other in it to make it not drinkable?  I don't remember if it makes you go blind, or grows hair on your palms, or what -- but I think there's something added so you don't try making mixed drinks with it as you're fueling the race vehicle.

Caveat emptor!
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2007, 05:48:41 PM »
Didn't I read someplace that ethanol (as sold for fuel) has a couple of percent of something-or-other in it to make it not drinkable?  I don't remember if it makes you go blind, or grows hair on your palms, or what -- but I think there's something added so you don't try making mixed drinks with it as you're fueling the race vehicle.

Caveat emptor!
You can buy Everclear 95% ethanol at the liquor store.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2007, 05:55:46 PM »
Jon, you must be thinking of E85, I think it is definitely not drinkable, probably not even pleasant to siphon....
The ethanol we had was 99% medical grade called out by the Tech Order to clean the IR window on the airplane...
Don't know what the other 1% was but I think it was what made walking difficult after a couple....
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline oz

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Re: Fuel shutoffs
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2007, 02:12:44 AM »
Ok orange wont work purple jesus sounds quite nice what about coke or a splash of lime or use of Homer Simpsons patent Chilli eating wax throat technique!Seriously is a bit of water a good idea as i am going to make another tank this wekend and fit it if it is?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 09:30:36 AM by oz »
Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff