sidecar changes

[Stainless1]

We have studied the rules to determine which class was the best adapted for us.
Since our entry 2008 is planned to be a 50cc SC/VG,
We want to race a "could have been a period Motobecane sidecar".
We will build the chassis starting from a 1954 moped chassis, lenghtened and lowered.
And what about the slowest classes possible cancelations ?
Frank.

Bak, you are really sensitive about this sidecar thing, I didn't say your sidecar would be slow, I was referring to these guys, unless you think a 50cc sidecar will be doing 187....
Just so you know I am not anti sidecar, during WOS I helped a sidecar guy prep his motor to get measured and put it back together.

[bak189]

Nortonist....your sidecar looks great......looks a lot like the outfit Wink build, and that one certainly worked good for Wink........................
He did have one problem when he took it to SCTA Bonneville......M/C Tech. passed it..........but the
"car guys" wanted him to bail out of the outfit
at a lower speed to show he could..........................
 Wink "no way".......he did run it at the BUB and got top sidecar time and the money.
Stainless.....you are right about me being "sensitive about this sidecar thing".........I have been pushing forward the sport around the world for over 50 years now..............and I got
this "sensitive" from fighting the so called
"powers"................So sorry.....................................

[Sumner]

..................I'm still waiting for the answer to my original question.  If a sedan can carry four people, why doesn't the SCTA require passengers or ballast?

Believe me if the car is going to go fast it will have ballast in it.  Looking forward to seeing your sidecar run,

Sum

[529]

Willie,
Thank you very much for answering. I've seen your numerous posts on those rules problems.
No sidecar pics to be shown at the moment.
We have studied the rules to determine which class was the best adapted for us.
We want to race a "could have been a period Motobecane sidecar".
We will build the chassis starting from a 1954 moped chassis, lenghtened and lowered.
We will be partially streamlined, but won't have restricted exit.
Regarding the engine could you please indicate me if we are allowed to use a 2-stroke expansion-chamber exhaust. In a first mail, Russ told me the intake air box and exhaust weren't considered as part of the chassis for vintage classification (like they are in bikes classes), but as part of the engine for sidecars. Does this mean that the exhaust has to be pré-1955 ?
And what about the slowest classes possible cancellations ?
Frank.

Frank,

The entire engine, including the exhaust, airbox and carb has to be 100% vintage unit. For a 2 stroke the cylinder has to be vintage as well so no "major" welding up and moving the ports. externally it has to appear 100% stock. Thats why the class is so dang slow!

They really didn't have that whole expansion chamber or transfer port thing figured out in 1955!

People joke about the slow speeds but running 40 MPH at 2,900 ft altitude on a "stock" 52 year old 50cc moped is actually very difficult.

Cant wait to see the pics!

[willieworld]

car guys have nothing to do with motorcycle tech--there is a rule in sidecar (scta) if your exit is restricted you have to run in the streamliner sidecar class --if tech (motorcycle) wanted you to demonstrate unrestricted exit you would do that in tech but certainly not under way --
 motorcycle riders are a minority in land speed racing and sidecar racers are a minority in that minority --yes even at a all motorcycle event we are still a minority in the big picture --we all have different tastes so lets all  agree to disagree and move on to better things --there was 500 entrys at s.w. in 07-- when they start restricting the entries  who do you think is going to be outside looking in--before you say it bob i know there is bub  but how long is that going to last --i was there this year and never did see the bub liner run -- the people there could not handle 500 entries --this land speed thing is attracting more people every year what the limit is i dont know but i am sure there is at some point --at speed week i made 7 runs this year - 1  rookie run- 3 down runs -3 record runs between  there were days that i was in line for 4 hours or more it was all worth it though - sheri said get off the computer and do some work on her bike - got to go  willie  buchta

[1212FBGS]

529
you are way, way, way, way, wrong....... unless you are running vintage "PRODUCTION" (which most side cars are not) you can do any modification you want.... you can change carbs, pipes, and do whatever porting and welding you want as long as you use original castings. you can modify the crap out of it, even modify external apperance. on a 2 stroke you can weld bigger transfers on the outside, port the crap out of it and even run a watercooled head and big cone expantion chamber.....for the most part our vintage records arnt slow, heck Dale Martin even won an SCTA championship with a vintage bike.
kent

[529]

529
you are way, way, way, way, wrong....... unless you are running vintage "PRODUCTION" (which most side cars are not) you can do any modification you want....

Kent, you are absolutely correct. I was thinking vintage production not vintage gas. I stand corrected.

[Sumner]

.....................- sheri said get off the computer and do some work on her bike - got to go  willie  buchta

She is starting to sound like Kent ,

Sum

[JackD]

BAD EXAMPLE
Dale Martin set his own minimums, gave them another thought and tried to lower even those.
The result was predictable, the board denied him further reductions, and he ran fast enough anyway to get #1 bike at EM.

[willieworld]

yeaaa dont you guys get it  --dont ride a fox upstream -dont let the horse guard the hen house --dont rollerscate in a buffalo heard--couldnt resist  sorry  willie buchta

[Nortonist 592]

If any of the car guys want me to do a low speed bail out that won't be a problem.  Providing they are willing to do the same with their car.  The truth is there are only two people who will tell me to do a bail out.  Tom Evans or Russ O'Daly.

[bak189]

Regarding the vintage 50c.c. sidecar outfit.........
at one time SCTA/BNI had Producton, Modified,
Altered in the sidecar class.......but in their wisdom around the early 1990's they put them all together in "SC......... a sidecar class"
There is now SC-G, SC-BG, SC-F, SC-BF....................
so the way I understand it (like Kent noted).......
in the sidecar class with SCTA/BNI it is wide
open...........as far as mods...................................
I am right now looking at a trophy from SCTA/BNI for a sidecar record I set in 1991 in
SC-ABF  (todate that record still stands) at that
time my Kawa/Turbo outfit was considered
A............Of course again in their wisdom....
they did not retire the class.....they just put it altogether and called it "sidecar class"  Oh,
Well..........now you see why I am "Sensitive about this sidecar thing"......................................................
These changes were made back in the 1990's
without any input or asking........they just showed up in the next years rule book...............so this lack of input for the present M/C  rules is nothing new.......it is just business as usual.........................
Right................................................................................

[JackD]

REMARKABLE !

[Glen]

Seems to me a couple of years ago a side-car bike did a spin a short distance from the start and the rider did a bail out or pitch off, got up and bowed to the crowd. I believe the side car attacmhment to the bike frame and sort of steered the side car and the bike different directions. 

[willieworld]

there is a video of it somewhere i have watched it a many times --the problem with a sidecar is when you accelerate the bike tries to pass the sidecar when you slow down the sidecar tries to pass the bike the heaver the sidecar the bigger the problem --in the video it looks to me that upon shifting the rear wheel spun and the bike passed the sidecar fortunately he wasnt going very fast  just my openion   willie buchta