sidecar changes

[willieworld]

#1 I'm a gear grinder and a member of the SCTA and unless I'm mistaken that's the minimum requirement to race at El mirage unless you're a guest.
#2 If somebody was running at The World Finals, as I was, and had a sidecar. If they wanted a record it had to meet all the rules,such as, wheel size, Passenger accomodations and track width. The sidecar classes have to meet more rules then any of the other motorcycle classes. They have to meet all the two wheel motorcycle rules and the sidecar rules. We have two more races at El Mirage this season and I have until May to build a bike for my wife and myself to race next year and if I have to build it twice It will take twice as long and will cost twice the amount of money.
I think that the SCTA is doing an excellent job of running a race program at El Mirage and Bonneville. The only thing that I see lacking is communication and that might be the fault of the racers as much as the fault of the officers. That was my intent here to find out if anybody knew about any rule changes. I have read the minutes of the last meeting and there was a discussion of eliminating all the slow classes and all the sidecar classes that were a wheel on a stick, whatever that means.
So Let me put this another way.....
Has anybody heard anything about sidecar rule changes???
Willie Buchta

[JackD]

I could have sworn, as I stood on the long course starting line I saw, out of the corner of my eye, a two wheeled object with nothing more than what looked like my grandkid's skate board wheel on a thin left side boom, leave the starting line on the short course at WFs.

See, there ya go !
He says left and you say right.  LOL
Hidden in the middle is the truth.
The original sidecar rules for SCTA were written by a "World Class" subject matter expert that is now considered to be an "outsider" and was reflective of real racing hacks.
He has been running LSR and other forms of bikes for longer than many participants are old.
Now the rule has been adjusted to the wishes of the original, and immediate  benefactor of that change, that also used minimums he set to get # 1 in SCTA.
The bastardisation of the original rules and intent is commonly known as the "Slide Car".

[Nortonist 592]

At our meeting it was mentioned that there were some sidecar changes proposed.  Not a lot of details.  Removal of some of the slow sidecar classes.  And the "wheel on a stick" was mentioned.  Which I don't understand as there are rules in place that cover platform size etc.  "Body" was also mentioned.  As our club reps are from the species that has to have four wheels to keep them upright I don't think a lot of attention was paid to the proposed motorcyle rule changes.  I will be seeking more details.  Although getting a record may be easier than getting details of the changes.  If I wait for the rulebook to come out in June it may be too late.

[bak189]

As a "outsider" (with a big mouth).................... in Jack's days as M/C rules and Tech chief we raced real sidecars with SCTA/BNI.......................................
Now, however, to see "real" sidecars one has to attend the BUB Speed Trials..................................
Willie, you are right, they do cost mucho dollars to build.  (I have seen your "sidecar" and it is
very nice and built to SCTA/BNI rules)

[desotoman]

The original sidecar rules for SCTA were written by a "World Class" subject matter expert that is now considered to be an "outsider" and was reflective of real racing hacks.

Might that have been Mike Parti? I remember him running side cars way back, with a passenger as I recall.

Tom G.

[desotoman]

Tom, we'll have to talk sometimes about S-21 and 22s , 270s, 290s and 325s and Adventurer cylinder heads. Gene Adams knew!
Probably still does!

Sounds good to me. I own Gene's old Jr. Fuel motor from the late 60's early 70's.

Tom G.

[John Noonan]

This will be good...

[JackD]

The original sidecar rules for SCTA were written by a "World Class" subject matter expert that is now considered to be an "outsider" and was reflective of real racing hacks.

Might that have been Mike Parti? I remember him running side cars way back, with a passenger as I recall.

Tom G.

Mike didn't write the rules I mentioned but was a colorful and well respected participant.

[Larry C]

Sidecar rules are so simple, Race Real Sidecar, not a wheel on a stick! A platform that can accomadate a real passanger, real fenders on sidecar wheels, and the option to carry a real passanger or somewere around 132 lbs. of weight (from FIM rules). There I said it in a couple of sentences not fourty seven pages of obscure rules to fit personal whims, sheesh!! Want real sidecar rules?, check with Bak 189 (oh boy, I'm in trouble now!!)

[Nortonist 592]

The SCTA has platform dimensions, sidecar wheel covers etc in place.   Why do we have to carry a passenger?  Or ballast?  SCTA records are not recognized by the F.I.M.  So why should we play by their rules?  If you race a four door sedan should you be required to carry three passengers?  Because a sidecar is a passenger carrying device that doesn't mean that you should carry one.  If the rules are changed to require that ballast be carried what becomes of the current records?  Are they simply to be scrapped and start with a blank sheet?  The sidecar rules as per current rulebook are fine.  Leave them alone.  Changes tend to confuse the heirarchy.

[John Noonan]

If either Larry Coleman or Mike Bakker want to "hang on" to my 216+ mph sidecare I am happy to do the staring..lets see if the SCTA will "lettuce"

J

[Larry C]

Actually the rules were fine in 1988 when we did carry passangers at SCTA (I currently have three SCTA sidecar records and one AMA) At that time the SCTA had rules that allowed for purpose built sidecars, I.E. SC/AG. Many changes were made that lumped sidecars into one class with no class distiniction for inovation other than streamliners. I race sidecars because I am an dedicated sidecar racer of almost fourty years. I don't care about using the rule book to simply gain points, which for some is what lsr sidecars have unfortunatly become . In my opinon the rules were far better before they were changed. Change them yet again? argueable.

[JackD]

The rules did read "The operator must demonstrate they can be accommodated aboard the sidecar to guarantee a minimum size."
That was pretty simple.
The changes to obviously only get points were pretty simple too.

[willieworld]

Right on John...Do we have a volunteer to ride or should I say to hang on? Or I'll take you on my sidecar it only runs 132.
The only problem with that for all of you who have driven a sidecar know that when you accelerate the bike tries to pass the sidecar pulling you in the direction of the sidecar. When you put on the brakes the sidecar tries to pass the bike pulling the bike in the opposite direction. Making for a very dangerous situation, especially in a medium like dirt or salt. When I first started running my side car this year at El Mirage my sidecar wheel on the scale weighed 126 pounds and pulled very very hard to the left under accelration. I took off weight a little at a time until I got to 62 pounds on the sidecar wheel. And now the bike no longer pulls to the left of right under acceleration or deacceleration. It is much more stable and I feel more comfortable with the handling of the bike.
Just for your information I did go to the FIM web site and check the rules for the sidecar and my sidecar exceeds all the minimums for FIM sidecar. There are 53 pages for regulations on sidecar and 39 pages of technical regulations for sidecar. That's 91 pages of regulations. SCTA has 8 pages for general regulations and technical regulations. FIM has 13 pages of medical requirements for drivers and riders and 47 pages of anti doping rules including random blood testing. If you would like to read them for yourself go to www.fim.ch/EN/default.asp you can read them there.
Anyone that races at Bonneville or El Mirage that has a sidecar or a "Wheel on a Stick" and can get through tech is exceeding the FIM requirements for sidecar passenger requirements. The nice thing about racing in the SCTA events is thatyou can be an individual in your building and design of your race vehicle whatever it may be. All of the FIM sidecar bikes are all identical other than the paint and the decals.
That being said...I started landspeed racing this year on May 5th and I haven't missed a race yet. I even went to the BUB speed trials but I rode my street bike up just to watch. That two hour turn around run the wrong direction thing has got that meet very very disorganized. SCTA has it all together compared to that crew. This year we have met some awfully nice people and they weren't all gear grinders. Some were from other clubs. Every time we needed any kind of help someone has always been there. From fixing a flat tire to refilling my NOS bottle people have gone out of their way to help. And I thank them.
Just hope that the sidecar rules don't get changed to drastically. This year my goal was to just get through the year learn all the ropes and if I was lucky made set a record. So far so good. I'm in the process of building my wife and myself a bike for next year(both sidecars). If anybody needs any help look for the white mailbox with the names Willie and Sheri on it. We will be glad to lend a hand. We are usually camped about an 1/8 mile from the tech trailer along the  return road. I'd like to talk to anybody I can who has a sidecar. See you at El Mirage on October 20th....

Willie Buchta

[bak189]

John, the NAME is Bob Bakker............also I do not race them (sidecars) anymore, I just built them...
(at 71 years old, I leave the driving to the younger sidecar racers like driver Larry Coleman and passenger Warren Ryan)
Your 216mph with your "wheel on a stick" is certainly outstanding............but I don't think you can run those speeds with a passenger......you may not admitt it but you are "flying the chair wheel"...... with a passenger on the platform you would run a lower speed with the chair wheel on the ground.........in addition with a passenger your
bike would not steer properly as it is presently
set up and build.  I have been building and racing sidecars longer then you are old..........and I think by now I know of what I speak.
On talking to Kent,he indicated that at 155mph on his 750c.c. "wheel on a stick" sidecar the sidecar wheel was in the air most of the run......
 Kent, does not tell lies.  Could it be that is what the SCTA/BNI M/C rules committee is looking at with talk about "Ballist"