Traction control and turbos:

[Rex Schimmer]

Reading the report on the FIA meet is seem that the Main/Poteet car had a failure of the electronic traction control and the explaination of the way the traction control works is that as the drive wheels spin the ECU reduces the timing lead. OK this works pretty go on normally aspirated cars and driven blower cars but as per the report the removal of advance caused the exhaust temp to rise and I would also suppose the boost would rise as now the turbo is seeing hotter exhaust gases and is therefore turning faster, making more boost (?) and probably trying to ignite everything in the combustion chamber. Maybe the traction control should be hooked to the boost control.? Please some turbo guy tell me if the taking out ignition lead is a good way to take away hps. I know of one ECU builder that uses this very same method for reducing turbo lag. When you stand on the gas at low or no boost the ECU retards the timing, the exhaust gas temp spikes and the turbo takes off to big boost land, so trying to reduce the hp of a turbo motor by taking out timing seems a bad idea.

I still like the way Don Vesco did it with his turbo Kawasaki streamliner, short shift to high gear then turn in the turbo boost knob to make more hps and accelerate without spinning the wheel. Probably hard to do this in todays electronic world.

Rex

[desotoman]

I still like the way Don Vesco did it with his turbo Kawasaki streamliner, short shift to high gear then turn in the turbo boost knob to make more hps and accelerate without spinning the wheel. Probably hard to do this in todays electronic world.

Rex

Me too.

Tom G.

[Dynoroom]

Rex, I think you get it...

[JackD]

That was an Indy style discharge air bleed that allowed the turbo to get to maximum speed (spool up) and then the load was added.
The control was fabricated on sight when it was discovered the gears would not take the load that peaks (carry over boost) at the bottom of the next higher gear.
It was a radio style knob and a speedo cable that extended over his shoulder and he took 1 hand off the steering and dialed in the boost.
No ECU, data gathering, no timing retard, no traction control.
It was seat of the pants that is not common these days.

[wolbrink471]

early morning wonder me.....what kind of kawi motor was in the Vesco steamliner?

[JackD]

They were Z-1 air cooled with a .o1 ground off the heal of the cam, heavy valve springs, copper head gasket, Arias pistons, the press in crank pins were welded.
The weak link was the single transmission on the rear motor only that took the power from both cranks.
The ignition was driven from the ends of the cams, and it used Hilborn mechanical injection with alky.
The whole package was more experienced than trick.
Thatsaboutit.

[landracing]

Jack can confirm this but in the Lightning Bolt it was two Kawasaki KZ1000 air cooled engines this was a 318 mph record.
Before that in Silverbird it was twin TZ750 engines were he went 303 mph average.
When it was the Yamaha red streamliner he used two Yamaha 350 engines and did 249 mph average.
Single 350cc engine he average 197 average.

There are off the official timing sheets of the FIM. I didnt look thru them all but that is some of them during some of the years he was out there to give you an idea of what he was running

Jon

[wolbrink471]

thanks!

[landracing]

the liner was very small width wise, this is a picture from 1971 in the Red Yamaha liner. You can see how scrunched don was in there.

[Dean Los Angeles]

When the wheels start spinning the horsepower curve is ahead of the traction curve. I would think that a multi-path approach would be necessary. Anything you do to the engine is not going to be instantaneous. My first option would be to start pulling in brakes. The brake doesn't have to be on the wheel. Using the mechanical advantage of the gears with a brake on the drive shaft would allow a better advantage. Taking timing out, reducing fuel and reducing air are all in the ball game.

[JackD]

The Vesco 350cc record is over 200, and how many years did it take to beat it and by how much ?
So too with the unlimited record.
Those kinds of records that seem so easy for some and difficult for others have a lot to do with experience and or business.
Could Don have gone faster with the power available ?
Remember, he doubled the power but only set a record 15 mph faster.
If he set it at 350mph, how would it influence any potential competition ?

"If you go for the knockout, you are a hero, if you go for the kill, you are a criminal." (me)

[1212FBGS]

knocking out timing is a very old and very very crude way to reduce a "little" power. Current TC can close a few throttle butterfly's on multi throttle fly by wire system (smooth power delivery) or for bigger power loss you can kill a few cylinders spark completely ( sounds nasty as a vehicle farts, sputters, and pops like a machine gun as it comes out of a corner then cleans up and dissapears) Popping off a blow off valve is the best way cuz the turbo hot side can still be spooled up. BOV controll can be done the same as waist gate controll but more accurate.
kent

[JackD]

OBTW: The Vesco motors were first edition Z-1 and not the later KZ series.
And ya know that Kent kid seems to be coming right along doesn't he.

[1212FBGS]

yeh and his head is catching up with his belli...
kr

[JackD]

yeh and his head is catching up with his belli...
kr

Soon enough it will start to go the other way.  LOL