Author Topic: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer  (Read 6005 times)

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Offline RayKimbro

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Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« on: September 28, 2007, 09:47:55 AM »
I was approached by a motorcycle racer who made his inaugural visit to Maxton this past meet. 

He was grinning ear-to-ear with enjoyment at being there, with the reception he received from ALL the ECTA staff, from the folks at the gate, to the Boss Ladies in the trailer,  Rookie orientation, Tech, Starting Line help, and the general helpfulness and encouragement he received from the other racers. 

SO - it sounds like as we've come to expect, EVERYONE acted like an ECTA ambassador to this new racer, and we've got another enthusiastic addition (ZX14 guy, BTW) to the family.

THIS, folks - is what's going to grow our sport.

That said - this racer DID have a suggestion for us:  Even though he did the Rookie Orientation - he didn't see the turnoff for short-shutdown until he'd already passed it.  His concern was that he "didn't clear the track as quickly as he should have" (his words) and he asked about the feasibilty of somehow or another (a flag, colored cones?) labeling the upcoming turnoff to short shutdown.   

So - I've tossed the suggestion out here - anyone else have ideas as to whether or not it should be implemented, and if so, how?

Ray Kimbro
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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 10:07:56 AM »
More cones for Debbie to avoid?  I think not!

Seriously, maybe we should ask the rookie orientator (I just made up that word) to take this guy's comment as an indication that certain things need better explanation during the orientation.  Maybe asking (requiring) the rookies to make a pass down the course in their own vehicles (not the race vehicle) before competing -- so that they have a racer's-eye view of the track without the added confusion of the rest of the orientees (made up that one, too) and vehicles -- then the rookie could see things like the short turnout, the bumps, the lights -- things that are pointed out during orientation but (evidently) not remembered by the newbie.

Yeah, I know -- there's only so much track time available for making passes, and sending rookies down the course, one at a time, in their own cars would use up time.
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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 12:08:11 PM »
More cones for Debbie to avoid?  I think not!

Seriously, maybe we should ask the rookie orientator (I just made up that word) to take this guy's comment as an indication that certain things need better explanation during the orientation.  Maybe asking (requiring) the rookies to make a pass down the course in their own vehicles (not the race vehicle) before competing -- so that they have a racer's-eye view of the track without the added confusion of the rest of the orientees (made up that one, too) and vehicles -- then the rookie could see things like the short turnout, the bumps, the lights -- things that are pointed out during orientation but (evidently) not remembered by the newbie.

Yeah, I know -- there's only so much track time available for making passes, and sending rookies down the course, one at a time, in their own cars would use up time.

When I first ran at Maxton last year I went down the track two times in the rental car and closely looked at the newer patches and the areas where it was concrete on one side and asphalt on the other.  I then was cleared to run at any speed I felt comfortable by Keith and proceeded to run over 200 on my first pass and I found that the short turn out to come up faster than I expected and proceeded to take the longer turnout without any problems.  This year I also attended and found that the track was even better than before (thanks KT&JT) and that the short shut down even easier to take.

I again had a great time and will be back in the future, I look forward to the the great people and even better course next time I visit.

Thank you ECTA! !


John

Offline DahMurf

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 04:00:07 PM »
NO MORE CONES!!!!!!!!!!!! :-o


hahaha, ok, just kidding.

Actually Keith and I talked on the subject of shut down and new riders at length this past meet. My suggestion and thoughts are contrary to the beginning of this thread. I think too much emphasis is put on short shut down. As John stated above, as your speeds increase, short shut down comes up fast!

My thoughts/suggestions in reference to new riders is with each licensing pass from 150 up that the rider should be required to take long shut down. Licensing is about control and acclamation with the track. As your speeds increase the feel of the track and the way you need to negotiate the dog leg changes.

One common recurring issue I see happening, myself included, is breaking too much at higher speeds between the traps & short shut down. This sets the rider & the bike up for difficulty negotiating the turn due to the physics of turning a bike under heavy braking.

My thoughts are to encourage the riders increasing their speeds to learn how to negotiate the turn without “heavy” breaking. If they get a better feel for the turn, knowing they need to run it through long shut down anyway, I really feel it will help them as they increase speeds. I think too many new riders that are worried about the turn just try to brake before they hit it rather then learning how to run through it.

If you suddenly find yourself at the speed that won’t allow you to make short shut down (and this speed is different for every racer) and all you’ve practiced is taking short shut down then I feel the odds of having a less then graceful shut down are pretty high. I’m a good example, Darrell is a good example, Walt is a good example. We’ve all had that “oh shit” moment. Walt’s pulled it out more then once, Darrell hit the cones & didn’t go down, I froze on a cone and went down.

Since then Walt has practiced running through long shut down with less brake and has gained more control. Of course now that he’s running in the 240’s he has to negotiate shut down differently again, but we’re talking about new to the track riders here. I talked at length with Darrell prior to this past meet. I’ll do a follow up with him to see how he feels about shut down now and what if anything he’s done to improve his approach.

Granted, racers with a lot of high speed experience and/or road race experience won’t feel the same. However, orientation is best served to assume that the rider is a relative novice at speed.

Take someone like John N. If he were new to our track and had to license up, I really don’t see that there would be any hardship in making him run down long shut down 3 times. After that, if he knew his skills were there, it would be his decision where to shut down. But at least having felt that run down, if he were to loose brakes or run faster where he couldn’t safely use short shut down, he would already be acclimated with long shut down.


Of course the next set of instructions to follow will be why you don’t need to do only 10mph to get OUT of long shut down! But we’ll save that for another thread!
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Offline Rick Roberts

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 12:30:39 AM »
When I first started running at Maxton I ran in the 175-185 mph range and I used the long shut down every time. I knew then that racers much faster than me used the short shut down but I did't feel any pressure to make the short shut down until, with my limited riding ability, I was ready. Now I run in the 200-205 range and make the short shut down easily, but would still take the long shut down if I felt I needed to. If you are a new racer or not so new racer, don't worry, the track belongs to you until you're clear. I'd much rather wait a few seconds for you to clear the long shutdown than to see you get hurt trying to make the short shut down. Ride safe, Rick
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 12:51:38 AM by Rick Roberts »
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Offline Dan Stokes

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2007, 09:05:31 AM »
Having worked shut down on more than a few occasions (although my experience is NOTHING compared with Joe Roberts!), I assure you, we have no problem waiting for you to clear long shutdown if you feel like you need it.  As Deb briefly mentioned, it's cool to clear it with safe but brisk velocity so the next competitor can get on down the track, but by all means, use it if you want/need to.  While we do try to get in as many runs as possible, there's NO pressure to make each run quicker at the expense of safety.

I'm guessing we all know that, but I wanted it said.

Later
Dan
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Offline TURBO KING

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2007, 10:03:28 PM »
Debs right in what she says about my experience with the shutdown.

I found it MUCH easier, up to the low 230 mph range, to not brake at all until I went through the turn.  Prior to discovering this, I was breaking like mad up to and through that turn.  I felt much safer (and so did Jody) and in far more control, when I didn't even touch the brakes until I was well clear of the turn.

But, in the high 230's/low 240's, I am braking for all I am worth both up to and through that turn, because I am really leaned over to get through it.  Lee gave me some advice on that and it works.

Walt
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Offline nickelcityracing

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 10:52:50 AM »
Debbie you are right...there is no need for anyone rookie or long time racer to make the short shutdown..if you are comfortable on making it , go ahead. if your not, take to long way around. Once you have made the corner you can get back on the gas to be curtious to other fellow racers waiting to take their turn....

Walter, hopefully in a few weeks I will be asking you for those tips on breaking and making that corner at higher speeds....but you are right...you build confidence and that corner gets easier everytime....my first pass at maxton that corner was very intimadating and now it feels a better...speeds are increasing and the feeling is coming back....every time you come back from a run I try to listen to what you are saying about your run, from start to finish.....

just remember to be on guard at all times, things change every run..(.Walter and I talked at the last meet about trying to keep more less  the same line down the track but end up on one side or the other...) you may hit a bump on one run that you did not hit on the last....anyways take the short shutdown if you wish but dont feel pressured on doing so.....  Jody
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 10:54:35 AM by nickelcityracing »
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Offline team_cougar

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 07:19:48 PM »
Thanks for talking about this particular subject. I'm coming to the October event just to check everything out before I start racing in the spring with my Cougar. This is something I was wondering about.

Y'all are as nice a group as anyone could hope to meet at a motorsport event like this!

Andy White
Huntersville NC
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Offline DahMurf

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2007, 08:08:15 PM »
Welcome to the mix cougar. Feel free to take the rookie orientation ride in Oct. It doesn't matter that you won't be running this meet & it will help you to think it through & prepare for the spring. Another good thing is to hang around tech inspection. You can learn a lot about the process, what to do & not to do. Most everyone is helpful & happy to chat.

See ya soon!
Deb
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Offline team_cougar

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 06:01:58 AM »
Thanks for the info Deb.
Tech is where I can usually be found anyway since I like to see how people solve problems in different ways.

I'm looking forward to the orientation ride.  :-D

Andy
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Offline Dan Stokes

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 05:22:47 PM »
The rookie orientation is generally at 5:00 on Friday, and is usually repeated on Saturday at noon, or as Keith can fit it in.

Glad to have you!  It's time for me to make my obligatory pitch for you to come and volunteer with us.  We always need help, and this whole thing runs on volunteers.  As I've said before - no volunteers, no racing.  So please DO consider helping out.  It's really more fun that way (or so I think).  And don't forget to volunteer your spouse, team members, or that hitch hiker you picked up on the way to the track.  Just look me up, or reply to one of the Volunteer notices here on Landspeed, the ECTA Yahoo group, or contact me thru the ECTA website under volunteer coordinator.

See you there
Dan
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Offline team_cougar

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 05:52:05 PM »
Thanks Dan,
I'll be sure to look you up when I get there.
I live so close, it'd be a shame to not help out. Plus, it's fun.  :-D
Andy White
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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »
Attention everybody:

Don't tell Andy the truth about Dan Stokes -- or we'll never see him.  I mean, right now Andy thinks it'll be "fun" to help out.  It's pretty danged clear to me that he's not heard the real story about Dan.

Hey, Andy -- don't worry about Dan.  He's a nice enough guy.

Heh heh heh...
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Offline GH

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Re: Recommendation from a new ECTA racer
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 10:54:44 AM »
We were there for the first event in 06 with the 1950 Buick. We were cleared by KT to drive down the track the day before racing started to check out the patch work and select the best path on the track, It was much improved from the year before. Good luck, and fast runs to all. Gary