BUB Operation

[landracing]

First, This post is referring to the BUB International Meet ONLY.

Second, This posting is for suggestions for streamlining the BUB meet operations. (ramblings, bitches without a solution WILL BE Deleted from this posting) Good points about meet, and bad points with solutions is what this post is about.

Third, some pre-information before you post.
-BUB meet is in Forth year, they don't have it all figured out yet. They are open to suggestions to be considered.
-They LACK volunteers to help with the meet.
-BUB runs opposite directions for records, so that complicates the running of the meet.
-BUB has grown, first event probably about 50 entries, now completing its forth year had 350 entries for the event.

When posting a suggestion, please put entry number on the post, this way we can better filter out the information. If you haven't been to the event then I would assume it would be hard to comment on the running of the event. However, would like to encourage people to post. If the post can't be constructive it will be deleted. We already assume, that the event has problems, so it doesn't need to be stated again in a one liner, unless you have a solution to go with it.
Also don't be afraid to post the positives about the event.

[landracing]

Ok, ill start with one to get this going.

Entry #209

It is already known, that the meet is understaffed. It has grown to be a very large meet with about 350 entries this year. Staffing is huge problem and they need some people to help. Course stewards, impound area, pre-stage area, staging area can all use the help.

I suggest that, if you enter the event with an entry, you are REQUIRED to have one person from your team, do 1 Four hour duty during the meet. The event is 5 days long. If you have for example 100 entries that gives you 100 volunteers by the number of days, is 20 people each day. (7am-11am, 11am-3pm, 3pm-7pm) The full time volunteers at the event, would be in charge of scheduling. You don't show up for your duty, you don't get to run at the event. And you don't get thru Tech inspection without having someone scheduled for a duty.

I don't know how many people are needed each day for the event. But it would seem to me that in the proposed above situation, which is based on 100 entries, would be a huge assistance in the running of the event.

Jon

[donpearsall]

Jon - Entry # 567 and 5671. Baling wire racing.

This year was my first to go to BUB, so that is all I have to go on. But I have 5 SCTA races to compare it to, as well as other racing events.

By far the main complaint that racers had were the long waits. At the start of the meet, they said their goal was to run a bike every 3 minutes, but that was far from reality.

The main problem from my point of view was how the staging for the short and long course was organized. They had two lines (bikes on trailers and bikes by themselves) going to one portal where the staging official had his list in hand with the lineup. Since the line of trailers and bikes stretched for 1/4 mile through the pits, you had to be standing near the official with the list to hear him call your number. When he did, you had to run back to your bike or trailer, manage to get out of line and maneuver through the tight pits and get to the starting line. This made for a big traffic jam and road rage. There was NO radio communication, everthing had to be done in person by running back and forth.

My suggestions:

Eliminate the list of names. Just have one lineup OUTSIDE of the pits. First come first served.
Have Two-way radio communication with officials.
Space the pit rows farther apart.
Use the RWB course for record entries too. No sense in having one course empty and one jam packed.
Run same direction for record return runs.

Don Pearsall

[landracing]

Don,

Good info. And your points well taken.

I will tell you that the two way opposite run operation will NOT ever be changed. This is FIM/AMA sanctioned event and it required for a record.

The pre-stage lanes are a huge issue.
Clutter in the pits, clutter at pre-stage, clutter outside of pits and most definitely needs to be changed.

I agree two lines one short, one long and staging somewhere else other then the pits.

I would suggest that the pre-stage lanes be down the course on return road. Then you would move up to the staging area from there. This gives single file lines, organized and not congesting the pits or the area in front of the pits. This also resolves the "List".

I think that the pre-stage area in the pits was intended for canopy shelter for the riders who do not trailer their bike. Well, I say that it's not up the Event organizers to provide shade. It's the entries decision to ride to and from the lines. You had to get your race bike there somehow, and you have your own vehicles, provide your own shade when waiting in pre-stage. When you are moved from Pre-Stage to the staging point then have a canopy there while you are running the bikes. Im sorry but it just doesn't work with the setup they have now in prestage. Trailer or tow to the pre-stage area, then your rider can meet you back in the pits or impound area after the completion of their run.

Jon

Jon

[1212FBGS]

John
thanks for making this post...
I didn't go and have never been to a Bub event so i don't have personal experience. But i will say from past experience with volunteers they are both a necessity they can be an obvious problem. even the SCTA in there 50+years of events has volunteer problems. There is a vast difference between "a" volunteer and a "qualified" volunteer. Forcing the entrant to send there 12year old kid to work the staging lanes will not help...and it will happen. The solution is "qualified" volunteers, and you do that with very detailed "WRITTEN" instructions for there assigned duties. They must completely understand what is expected of them. Do not write these instructions as you would understand them because you would probably be the only one that would understand them. Write them so a 3rd grader would understand them, do not treat them as a they have a 3rd grade mentality, just written out in simplistic and through language so as to not be self interpreted as they read it. Secondly, selection of volunteers to job duties can be tricky and takes monitoring there performance. If you have a V that is brow beat and give him a badge of authority you can some times create a Hitler. You will be lucky if you assign an duty that fits the person. To identify a v problem you need a race director that floats from station to station to observe performance. And my last suggestion is a mandatory riders meeting every morning to get total feedback daily and a mandatory V meeting nightly, again for feedback. You may find that switching an V assignment will help things
kent

[aswracing]

Entries # 1987 & 331

The main problem from my point of view was how the staging for the short and long course was organized. They had two lines (bikes on trailers and bikes by themselves) going to one portal where the staging official had his list in hand with the lineup. Since the line of trailers and bikes stretched for 1/4 mile through the pits, you had to be standing near the official with the list to hear him call your number. When he did, you had to run back to your bike or trailer, manage to get out of line and maneuver through the tight pits and get to the starting line. This made for a big traffic jam and road rage. There was NO radio communication, everthing had to be done in person by running back and forth.

I agree 100%. The three-line, list based system is simply not workable. It needs to be abandoned. This was the biggest problem at the meet, that I saw.

Eliminate the list of names. Just have one lineup OUTSIDE of the pits. First come first served.

+1

This is the single biggest thing they could do to solve the issues.

Don't segregate based on long or short course, or whether or not the person has a tow rig. Don't keep a "list", it accomplishes nothing except to aggravate people.

The only fair way to do it is one line for everyone, first come first served. Simple, effective, and fair.

Space the pit rows farther apart.

+1

It was much too congested. Even if you eliminate the tow rig line snaking through the pits, it was too congested. There's no reason not to use more room.

Additional suggestions:

Lay out the impound such that people can have their support vehicles closer to the teardown area. The farther we have to park our trailers & toolboxes from the teardown area, the longer it takes us to do our work.

Prepare two courses, side by side, and halfway through the meet, switch courses. They did this at World of Speed and it really helped. The course deteriorates badly and gets more dangerous as the event goes on. A second course that can be easily and quickly switched to, because it's right up next to the first course, enhances everyone's safety.

At WOS they did the switch overnight. The next day, we had roughly an hour delay is all before we were running again. The new course was noticeably smoother, at least for awhile.

[aswracing]

I agree two lines one short, one long and staging somewhere else other then the pits.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this suggestion.

In fact, this is basically what was happening, and it was a HUGE source of discontent. Long course bikes (of which there were very few) were running over and over. The short course line was longer and had a much longer wait. The tow rig line was even longer and we were really getting screwed.

One line. Short, long, riding or towing, it doesn't matter, you get in that line and you go in order.

[aswracing]

Let me tell you about something that happened, Jon.

The MV Augusta was running the long course and making lots of runs, while the rest of us waited.

The uninformed PA/Radio announcer made a comment to the effect that the MV Augusta had made so many runs, and that showed that if a person had his act together and got in line in a timely manner and was ready to go, the line wasn't bad and things were running efficiently.

A number of people about came unglued when they heard that comment.

What it really showed is how messed up the system was.

[landracing]

Kent,

I couldn't agree more on your post about a body to fill a position, and a qualified person.

would have to be 18years or older, I see the point you were giving.

What I kind of envisioned in the Volunteer proposal. Is that BUB would have one of their dedicated workers overseeing a station. Like on allocation of a dedicated worker, overseeing an area, like course stewards. They would report to that dedicated worker, and he would place them and see they were doing their job.

Again a entry volunteer report to pre-stage and staging area to see the Dedicated worker, and he would assign the task of single file lines and getting people ready to move up to staging etc etc.

Again a entry volunteer report to the sales trailer or registration trailer and see the dedicated worker there who would assign the simple tasks to help them out.

Jon

[landracing]

Aaron,

Ok, then a solution that can be proposed would be run 10 short course vehicles, then run 10 long course vehicles.

this is something BUB internally will have a figure out. BUT, it is simple. There are tons more short course vehicles then long course vehicles.

That is why I think there should NOT be a combined line for long and short. Most obvious is long course vehicles start and additional two miles back. Their line should start in a separate pre-stage area down at the 0 mile marker. Short course pre-stage starts at the 3 mile marker. Then you run 10 and 10 as the line sees fit. Typically the long course line only has a few vehicles compared to short course lines. And this is done only because of the layout of the track, and where a long course and short course vehicles start from.

Both long and short both deserve the right to run, but why penalize the long course vehicle for being faster. The lines would be shorter and you would probably get more runs in the meet if you were a long course vehicle, due to the shorter lines. Want more runs, make your bike faster to qualify for the long course.

[Sumner]

Aaron,

Ok, then a solution that can be proposed would be run 10 short course vehicles, then run 10 long course vehicles.

this is something BUB internally will have a figure out. BUT, it is simple. There are tons more short course vehicles then long course vehicles................

Sorry I don't have an entry number and wasn't there this year (but was there last year as a lowly spectator  ), so you might delete this Jon, but what you purpose 10 short, 10 long, 10 short, etc. would end up being just like this year in that you would see long course bikes run more often than those on the short course.

I think what Aaron is suggesting is like speed week this year where we came to the starting line in two lines that were mixed with long and short course cars/bikes for each course and they alternated back and forth.  I know when they planned speedweek for this year it was suppose to be a short course car/bike then a long course car/bike and back and forth, but that didn't happen, at least as far as I could see.

I guess the problem is how do you be fair and yet start bikes from two different starting lines on the same course a couple miles apart.  You can stage them in one line and send them to the two different starting areas, but then sending them down the track in the order they were in the original line is a problem, especially if someone has a problem and pulls over and lets a couple people past them.

I'll be back next year to see how it was all figured out  ,

"no bike number Sum" 

[JackD]

The method of running that was described soon after the first event would have solved the problem of who gets to run how many times and in what order.
It has worked before and the number of entries is not a factor, nor is your importance in the pecking order.
FIM with a 2 hour turnaround time was lengthened from 1 hour in part to accommodate just such a system.
The same calendar day ruling for AMA was never even considered until a suggestion from a long time competitor at the first event.
Now it has deteriorated to the point that it is beyond their abilities.
Written instructions are fine if you read them and also understand.
What written word or understanding determined that an oil change between runs was prohibited ?
What in the written rules allowed the black bike with the rider inside the body and the skids to run in APS class or at all ?
Just handing a book to a person in a Foreign language or just reading it to them won't get very far towards a useful understanding.

[landracing]

What written word or understanding determined that an oil change between runs was prohibited ?
What in the written rules allowed the black bike with the rider inside the body and the skids to run in APS class or at all ?
Just handing a book to a person in a Foreign language or just reading it to them won't get very far towards a useful understanding.

jack,

Lets stay on topic about streamlining the meet, and help resolve the bottlenecks in running of the vehicles, your statements above are tech questions and do not pertain to this thread.

The method of running that was described soon after the first event would have solved the problem of who gets to run how many times and in what order. It has worked before and the number of entries is not a factor, nor is your importance in the pecking order.

Then post the method instead of just posting about it's existence.
Follow the format as I described in the first post, or be deleted from this point forward in this thread. want to welcome input from viewers. however it clearly states in first post, post your complaint and a solution.

Now why did I know that this was going to be an issue with you, and I already knew what you were going to post when I started this thread. And when I started it, I had to think of a way to keep you from posting your same boring rhetorical information, which we all have heard dozens of times with limited answers.

[landracing]

Also another problem with wait in lines, was vehicles who were short course type of vehicles were running long course track, like at 140-150 mph. They utilized the full track up to 9 miles. This should not ever happen.

First off you should use same system as other sanctioning bodies use, that you need to be a 175 mph+ vehicle to run the long course. Period, no exceptions (except streamliners)

The other problem I heard about, was a short course vehicle running 130 mph (example) and running their vehicle down to the end of the course area at a slower speed. Would offer suggestion that the warning system be used. There is no reason why a vehicle running less then 175 mph cant get OFF the track to the return road in about a mile. Then once on return road they can take all the time they need to get down to the canopy area for short course vehicles. If a bike is abusing the system, or taking to long, pussy footing on the course at slow speeds they be tagged with a warning. Second time your done at the meet and can't run anymore.

The competitors that did this are just as guilty for holding up the meet as anybody else. Make your run, get OFF the track, so the next vehicle can go.

Jon

[lynnk]

Good day all.
This is a new voice for you to consider.
Lynn King #200 MPS, I WAS there, as a newcommer to the salt.
I'll try to put my sorted impressions in a readable order.
Understanding that this list has a time-out, I will post at least two posts.

Post one.
I had a great time. I waited in line a long time. I figured out how some were using the system. I did NOT
use the system, but I made sure the system didn't use me.
First off about the pit set up. I feel it was just fine. The problem...people started a third line down the
middle of the pits which caused crowding all arroud. The pre-stage was the bottleneck. I agree that it
should have been somewhere else. My suggestion, have the pre-stage set up on the other side of the
registration trailers near the fuel truck and extending in that direction. The "List" was the problem
because of how it was manipulated by stewards AND participants. The list should have been a large
white board. You tell the steward you are ready, he puts your name on it and it is raised up to a position
that can be seen from a distance. YOU keep track of yourself and show up ready to run as your name
comes up. Not being on time moves you to the end. No changes, no messing arround. Everybody gets
to watch the list. It's not kept in someones pocket.
The position of the pits was great! We were able to see each person as they went through the measured mile. How cool was it see some of your mentors fly by, as opposed to hearing there time as they went
down course four to six miles away.
I started my gear selection on the RWB course. On my second run, just before the two, we got into a
tankslapper at 150. Held throttle and shifted over to the outside and settled her down to finish the rum. Why is this important to this discussion? Cause the salt was getting beaten up by too much traffic on one side. As it turrned out this course got really beaten up through the event. I moved over to the short course after that. After a few runs on the short course, and waiting in line each day I had my mechanic
moniter the events and actions of the steward. He was being manipulated by fast talking, sudo-important people. He was being belittled and lied to. ASWRACING, I was next to you when you very
justifiably lost it. I was two bikes from going down to the short course staging. What did I see in regards
to things like this? Often times the steward was looking for a bike and rider. They may have been in their
truck/van waiting to be called and WAY down the staging line. The steward didn't go ALL the way down the
line looking for ya.....You got passed up. Sad, very sad for many riders.

End of post one.
More to follow........