Author Topic: No questions here for years!  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline jjolly

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No questions here for years!
« on: January 30, 2022, 09:14:50 AM »
So Ill throw this out there. I have, I assume a 358" Ford Nascar engine. Maybe Penske circa 2003. Maybe 12-12.5-1 compression. Single 950 Holley, VP C12, 4 speed toploader with GV O/D, 3.73 gears and 26.1" tires. I ran 214 in my 79 CGC Mustang @ 2021 Speedweek. Engine was @ 8050 RPM on that pass and everything seemed right in my WOT world. 
  So now I have plans to change up things and try to go somewhat faster.
  Water injection is one of the changes. I can handle the mechanicals. Where might I start in timing? Do I change it? Any experienced folks care to share what they know on the subject of just water in a naturally aspirated engine at Bonneville?
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Offline Stainless1

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2022, 10:37:29 AM »
Racing Bonneville is always an experiment...
What is your shift RPM...
What are you trying to do with the water injection... and what else are you changing?
Have you been on a dyno and know your power and torque peaks?

Sorry, you are probably hoping for an answer instead of questions, but the added info might get you a better answer. 
 :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline jjolly

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2022, 11:17:13 AM »
No Dyno numbers. I bought it used and injured from a local roundy pound racer.  I may put it on a chassis dyno after I get my updates done. I shift at 8000 and wanted to use water in OD only.  I am raising the rear of the car quite a bit, 5 or 6 inches. Will look for legal ways to reduce drag but I know I need to try and put out a more HP too. I ran 35 degrees timing at Arkansas and it seemed to like that. I ran 32 at Bonneville because I thought it would be safer.  I am adding 1 inch to carb spacer, getting heads checked and replacing the valve springs. Will try a slightly taller rear tire. I want to get the car into OD sooner so I will add another 2-300 lbs for traction. In mile events the engine really does pull enthusiastically from 6500 to 8800 I have rev limiter set to.
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Offline Stainless1

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2022, 12:56:07 PM »
If your motor likes 35 degrees at low altitude, I'm not sure why you took timing out for Bonneville's higher altitude. 
It looks like you are topped out on your timing slip... Something will need to be changed to go faster...
Shifting at 8000... through the traps at 8050...  but with 35 degrees of timing runs well to 8800... did it stop pulling at 8000 at Bonneville in the lower gears?  That may be due to reduced timing...
OK as I said first running Bonneville is an experiment.... I would try being ready to do that... Not sure I'd start with 5-6 inches in the rear... maybe 2-3 with the ability to go more, bring larger tires, try going back up in timing, especially if you are throwing in water. 
Guys?  feel free to jump in here...
Have fun...  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline salt27

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 01:23:24 PM »
It may be worth considering gears taller than the 3.73s to reduce the driveshaft speed.

  Don

Offline jjolly

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2022, 02:01:32 PM »
hey Stainless, I ran the mile with a 3.08 diff and 1-1 trans. I shifted some where over 8k and hit the limiter on a couple of passes before I got it into 4th gear where it ran 203 @ 8050 RPM. I was running a .78 OD at Bonneville with the 3.73 for a 2.90 final drive on the 214 pass. I added 800 lbs and the Gear Vendors to the Car between Arkansas and Speedweek and expected the car to feel a bit sluggish being fat and overdriven! Car is currently 4300 lbs. btw. I know I really don't know enough about engine timing, but I am sure if I dig deep enough into these forum pages I will be able to gain a bit from the people here..
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2022, 02:52:23 PM »
The overdrive is costing you HP at the wheels, 1-1 in the trans & higher ratio ring & pinion is a better option. Going to a taller tire is also a step in the right direction.
There is also a lot more speed to be had in aero changes without adding HP.
  Sid.

Offline handyguy

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2022, 08:12:04 AM »
   My xperience with   H2O was good, it lowered intake temps , allowed more timing  ( 2 ish ) and my tuner  ( MARIO ) made a device to control how much water  was added according to RPM , u can flood the intake with 2 much H2O   2 soon ..  You might want to be sure u have high press. to mist well and where u introduce the water ..   STEVE

Offline TheBaron

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Re: No questions here for years!
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2022, 09:57:40 PM »
Unless you have overheating and or detonation issues during long pulls, water injection will most always take away more cylinder pressure than it can help produce....

Think about the heat it will absorb when turning into steam during the combustion process..... and heat is cylinder pressure....

When I turned on the water  injection on my air-cooled supercharged motorcycle,,, I lost 3 mph but the engine CHT came down to where the motor could survive the rest of the run.

That is what it is for, thermal management issues

Good luck with your project

Robert in California
Red Baron LSR