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Author Topic: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)  (Read 810126 times)

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Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #375 on: July 26, 2008, 03:33:02 AM »
I know very little about big motors but on my turbo busa I use a rising rate regulator that raises fuel pressure as boost comes on, and is controlled by directly by the amount of boost made.

Seems like something like a boost controlled compensating regulator would also be useful in regulating fuel pressure to a motor like this.

To be honest….I don’t even know if a product like this is even available for a motor like this!

IMO, bvillercr=balls.
It is one thing to build a purpose built streamliner or lakester with these speed aspirations. It is quite another to take a door slammer whose intended factory speed was not more than 100 and make it go this fast.

God speed brotha & good luck.

-JH





jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #376 on: July 26, 2008, 04:58:47 AM »
I know very little about big motors but on my turbo busa I use a rising rate regulator that raises fuel pressure as boost comes on, and is controlled by directly by the amount of boost made.

Seems like something like a boost controlled compensating regulator would also be useful in regulating fuel pressure to a motor like this.

To be honest….I don’t even know if a product like this is even available for a motor like this!

IMO, bvillercr=balls.
It is one thing to build a purpose built streamliner or lakester with these speed aspirations. It is quite another to take a door slammer whose intended factory speed was not more than 100 and make it go this fast.

God speed brotha & good luck.

-JH







  JH
 Our fuel pump is mechanical and we have had a boost sensing device (made by hilborn fuel injection for Indy turbo engines originaly) mounted on our fuel tank for years. We tried it once but made it way to rich and did not have time to waste runs tuning it.
 Now that the car is on the dyno we hooked it up and can adjust the tuning per dyno pull and get a true airfuel ratio,much faster.


Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #377 on: July 26, 2008, 05:10:58 AM »
Hotnuts, this car was actually built specific for the speeds we are trying to achieve.  We just haven't been active for about five years and a couple before that.  We ran this car in the late 80's and every year in the 90's.  We went the fastest in 94', but I wasn't there to see it. :cry:  college got in my way that year.  Hopefully this year will be easier on us than in the past, seems like we are always fixing something.  Our new build has been an improvement over our last set up in many ways.   :-D  Good luck to everyone at Speed Week(hope to meet the rest of U nuts on the salt). :-D
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 04:10:48 AM by bvillercr »

Offline Sumner

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #378 on: July 26, 2008, 02:47:13 PM »
................  JH
 Our fuel pump is mechanical

JH I'll just add that since the pump is belt driven it also moves more fuel and the pressure goes up with the rpm vs. an electric pump that is constant but that is easy to boost reference with the regulator.  There is no regulator in their system as you know it, just the "pill" that is a jet more or less that returns fuel to the tank after the pump.  What doesn't go back to the tank goes to the nozzles. 

The barrel valve you hear about is a pretty crude ramp shaped slot on the outside of a round cylinder that is inside of a cylinder and as it turns it lets more or less fuel go past it and it is there to control fuel on the idle and part of the intermediate circuits.  Once you get past where the ramped shaped slot works it is all the pill and you can have a couple different circuits with different pills that can also be controlled by the barrel valve as it turns when the throttle is depressed.  The picture below shows one possible setup...........



.......... where there is a high speed circuit that delivers more fuel when needed to the second set of nozzles (one set in this case in the ports and a second set up in the hat where the air enters the system.

The hard (simple system) part to remember is you control the fuel that returns to the tank after the pump with the barrel valve and the "pill" and what doesn't go back to the tank has to go to the nozzles and the motor. 

It is a crude but effective system, but you can see why with computers EFI just gives you so much more adjust ability anywhere in the fuel curve under about any condition of throttle position, vacuum/boost, etc. that you can run into. 

Note: If I got any of the above wrong as I'm still learning with our system please don't hesitate to correct me.

c ya,

Sum

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #379 on: July 29, 2008, 04:24:47 AM »
We may be doing a few things differently if we have time.  Bville is comming up fast and do not know if we can get them finished in time.  I will know tomorrow if the changes will occur, so in the mean time a little suspense. :-D

Offline Sumner

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #380 on: July 29, 2008, 03:33:14 PM »
We may be doing a few things differently if we have time.  Bville is comming up fast and do not know if we can get them finished in time.  I will know tomorrow if the changes will occur, so in the mean time a little suspense. :-D

EFI  :?  :?  :? ,

Sum

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #381 on: July 30, 2008, 03:01:22 AM »
I've got a couple pictures of the car.  The car had to be moved off the dyno so another car could get tuned.



Justin Coffman is a tuner and a welder.  His will be working on our inter-cooler, trying to stop the leaking.



Oh yeah, were missing something.



Ok, here was the deal.  We installed the new tach and ignition on Friday and got it running pretty good and we stopped fairly early that night, around 9pm.  We came back on Monday to run it on the dyno and the thing just wouldn't run right. Touchy MFI.



So the decision was made today to install the Sumner solution(He guessed correctly).  Pretty easy guess I suppose.  Anyway we went with the EFI FAST system.  Two nossles per cylinder, a larger fuel pump and so on.  Hopefully we get this car back home by early next week, cause we still have things to do of course.  So much for getting done early this year.  :-D :-D
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 03:34:04 AM by bvillercr »

Offline Sumner

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #382 on: July 30, 2008, 03:15:33 AM »
Hey I bet you aren't going to make any more HP, but you will have it everywhere!!!  Probably a tough decision to make this late in the game, but I think in the long run and hopefully in a few days it will be the right one and pay off big for you guys.  Sounds like you are working with the right bunch of guys to make this happen.

The best of luck,

Sum

 

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #383 on: July 30, 2008, 03:21:51 AM »
When we did our dyno pull J. Sharp said that it still needs more fuel, and that it would make more power.  They do believe that it will make more.  I agree with you that it will be much smoother off the line and with a more controlled throttle. :-D

Offline jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #384 on: July 30, 2008, 04:48:04 AM »
Hey I bet you aren't going to make any more HP, but you will have it everywhere!!!  Probably a tough decision to make this late in the game, but I think in the long run and hopefully in a few days it will be the right one and pay off big for you guys.  Sounds like you are working with the right bunch of guys to make this happen.

The best of luck,

Sum

 

 Hi Sum

 That 2096 hp was at 6000, they shut the pull down because it showed lean on the screen.We expect more when we get to 7000 rpm.
  Pretty good for mechanical though. It was just to finicky about starting and fouling plugs, in the past if it didn't start on the line we could pushstart it but with the Owens trans (the type that we have)the engine will only turn over in high gear.The engine has to be running to turn the planatary gears. Getting to old for that type of stress,besides Gary Hart was making me jealous.

            JL222

Offline GH

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #385 on: July 30, 2008, 02:39:18 PM »
You guys are going to like the efi. I admire your courage to make such a change this late in the game. I was worried that you were going to be too lean down track and damage that expensive engine, now you can tune the fuel map for any load and rpm, I think you made the right choice, when I ran the roots blower with the mechanical injection I would leave the line real rich and down track I would be running too lean and too much heat in the incoming air. I look forward to seeing you guys again..

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #386 on: August 02, 2008, 12:59:38 AM »
Looks like it might get a little tight getting finished, but we will make it.  I finished making the brackets for the helmet padding.  Just need to weld the brackets on and we are done with them.  Still waiting on EFI, looks like early to mid next week before we get all of the components needed.  We just need to stay ahead of the EFI and get everything else ready so we can put the finishing touches on the car when we get it back.  See ya soon.


Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #387 on: August 05, 2008, 04:13:19 AM »
We got a few things finished today.  We got the new helmet padding welded onto the funny car cage.  We also put a little wheel on our push bar so the bar wouldn't create so much friction when pushing off.  Still trying to fix the intercooler, we are getting closer every time we add 5 min. epoxy!!! :-o  We are also waiting on all of the EFI parts and the waterman fuel pump. :evil:  The pump should be done next week, hopefully everything else will be done before it arrives.  Starting to stress. :cry:

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #388 on: August 08, 2008, 03:00:03 AM »
I have been told that all of the EFI components will be delivered tomorrow around noon.  The fuel pump should arrive Mon, we hope.  Looks like it will be a long weekend. :-o

Offline lvsalt

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #389 on: August 08, 2008, 03:37:34 AM »
You guys will make it! your RACERS. look forward to meeting you.

 Gary  DCWATERJET
Gary Cole     DCWATERJET Z