Author Topic: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)  (Read 870445 times)

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Offline 1 fast evo 2

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1365 on: September 26, 2010, 10:08:34 AM »
HOLY MOLY !!!!

What type of pistons are those?
E.C.T.A. 200 MPH club
Winner HOTROD TOPSPEED CHALLENGE (superstreet) 2008
My EVO 2 - 8.96@158 mph in the 1/4
221.4 mph at Maxton sept. 08
223.6 mph at the Texas mile oct. 08
237.6 mph at Maxton april 2010

Offline thundersalt

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1366 on: September 26, 2010, 10:13:04 AM »
HOLY MOLY !!!!

What type of pistons are those?
Melted
916 AA/GRMR 
2017 AA/FRMR Bonneville Record holder
2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder
El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline joea

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1367 on: September 26, 2010, 10:45:01 AM »
...granite topped work bench.....sweet...:)..

Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1368 on: September 26, 2010, 11:07:38 AM »
...granite topped work bench.....sweet...:)..

  Looks like granite but formica and cabinets from Home Depot all assembled and installed by yours truly :-)
  If it was granite I would have the car up and running at Cooks meet :-)

                 JL222

Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1369 on: September 26, 2010, 11:27:23 AM »

  We don't want to put all the blame on the piston as checking this morning the top of piston with the oil ring
pushing through is sunken, showing signs of detonation, also a salty taste and look on residue and oil inside of manifold and gasket between head and manifold. A little salt residue at intake of blower. I don't think the salt
is as big a problem as the oil because I've read were they used salt water in the water injection of WW11 air planes in the South Pacific when fresh water was short.
 

                         JL222

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1370 on: September 26, 2010, 11:34:00 AM »
We definately had a few bad pistons.  This first one isn't too bad, but not usable.



Same one on the inside.



without the rod



This last piston we think is the result of what started to happen to the first piston in the photo.



you can see the top starting to split where the intake valve relief is, on the right.



I hate when you cant see pictures of what people are talking about, so here's another shot. :-D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 05:54:00 PM by bvillercr »

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1371 on: September 26, 2010, 06:04:10 PM »
John and Troy,
Looking at your second picture, the crack that we see is showing what the true thickness of the piston is at the valve pocket? If so I would certainly agree you need some more thickness in that area. I am sure you are having a "heart to heart" with your piston manufacture. Let us know his thinking as to what changes should be made.

Rex
Rex

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Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1372 on: September 26, 2010, 11:30:09 PM »
  Yea Rex ....I always thought it was a little thin there about .160 thou not much room in these long stroke
engines to fit every thing in. We don't have near the lift that the top alcohol guys use so will have to check that they didn't get carried away on cutting the piston for valve clearance. I know we had plenty but didn't write the number down. I think I'll put a good piston in put a light valve spring in and recheck before we take it apart any further. The valves didn't hit the piston last year and we really stretched them so we might have to much.


                      JL222

  REX...I'm talking about 2ND pic from bottom, 2nd from top is looking at oil ring pushing through inside of piston where skirt tapers to soon.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 11:47:08 PM by jl222 »

Offline pookie

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1373 on: September 28, 2010, 08:45:45 PM »
 Hi Jl222, After looking at the damage to those pistons, man that's really bad news!!!!   It has taken me a couple of days of looking at the photos of the damage before I wrote this query too you. May I take the liberty of a couple comments and have you elaborate on them ,if you would be so kind..In the 2&3 pictures of the underside of the pistons I can't see any pin oiling holes in the piston pin boss.. I also can not see oiling holes in the small end of the rod...Am I just missing them or is this something new that the piston mfg is doing to blower pistons. I was also wondering if the crack in the oil ring land, is it running or connected in anyway to the gas port holes usually found drilled in the oil ring land?? What was the firing order of those pistons?? I am trying to remember what make engine you are using...  I am not trying to stick my nose in your business, so I thought I would give it a shot and ask... Thanks for your time.... Mike R.

Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1374 on: September 29, 2010, 01:52:03 AM »
  Pookie... 1st the oil hole in the ring land is over an inch away and there is no conection with break. The piston
company that did machining is not same as manufacture. instead of holes in rod bosses they use the holes in oil
ring land to intersect a hole inside of pin hole one on each side with a relief cut between holes. Rods have oil hole in top and pin still slides freely in rod and piston in top 3 pics. Engine is KB Chrysler Hemi, firing order [ if I remember right]  is 18436572
 Checking things closer today I think part of the problem was trying to get 8.5 compression which resulted in rings being machined  to close to support inside of piston.

 Hard to explain but picture a normal stack of 3 rings with piston top 1/4 in above top ring, to increase compression
they move piston up say 1/4 more inch, now 1/2 from ring,  resulting in less support inside piston were forging goes from thick to thin

                            JL222
 



Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1375 on: September 29, 2010, 08:50:10 PM »
 
 WOW...the top of the page :-)
 Went to Joe Bogoshian's today and saw some top fuel pistons [much thicker skirts] and he says the even newer models are seperatihg the ring stacks more by putting the oil ring in the middle of the pin button :-o
  Looks like we will be going in that direction and also hard anodizing the piston.
 Also found out KB [our block and sleeve supplier is still in business [ closed for a while but reopened] good news, but our rod supplier ''Brooks is out :x
  Also went to Presion Auto and decided to richen the motor a bit, back off on timing and add 1 more  O2 sensor
and check and flow injectors for any problems.

                           JL222

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1376 on: September 30, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
John,
I see that you are using aluminum rods, what are your reasons for going with aluminum over a set of steel rods like Carillo?  I know that fuel motor guys like the aluminum rod for their ability to adsorb shock, which can be pretty big in a fuel motor but most of the other racing categories use some sort of steel rod especially motors with big turbos or blowers, similar to yours.

Just interested in your reasons as I know you do all of your "projects" with lost of sound engineering thinking.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Online jl222

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1377 on: September 30, 2010, 12:50:41 PM »
 
  Rex.. One reason is shock and weight but I don't know what a Carrillo rod weighs, but Joe showed me one he had made for an Offy that seemed pretty heavy, the other reason is cost and these rods give us no problems. Now that brooks is gone the cost for rods is more.

 Yesterday at Joe Bogoshian's shop he had an Arden V8-60 [extremely rare] he was finishing up making it to period looks with copper fuel lines and 4 #81 Stromberg carbs. It was mounted on a nice roll around engine stand and the owner wants to be able to fire it up when visitors come to his museum.

        JL222

Offline bvillercr

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1378 on: October 04, 2010, 11:09:26 PM »
Saturday we took the trans and engine out.  We also disassembled the clutch and fly wheel and got the block on the engine stand.  Most of the hard work is done, we need to check the cam and make sure it wasn't damage, get the crank out and polished and then work on getting the stuborn sleeves out. :cheers:

Offline Freud

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Re: Getting ready for Bonneville(rebuild)
« Reply #1379 on: October 05, 2010, 12:48:27 AM »
Rex, Ray Therat has drilled correct gammar into me in the past 16 months.

I am now acting as a "teacher", make that a professor..........

QUOTING YOU,

"Just interested in your reasons as I know you do all of your "projects" with lost of sound engineering thinking."

You have made a grievous error in that sentence.

It is "that they do all of your "projects" with lost of sound engine hearing ".

I think a better statement would be, "  you do all of your "projects" with LOTS of sound engineering thinking."

Now don't you feel better already?  I no I dodo.

Tolerate the misguided old College Prof and continue to show your respect for a talented pair of racers.

I'd be honored to be questioned in a constructive manner by you.

FREUD


Since '63