4L60 replacement

[Dakin Engineering]

I got a new hauler for the bike, but the tranny needs rebuilt. I have a TH400 on hand, but don't know about the electric gizmos that make the 4L60 work with the engine. Can I swap trannies and jumper out the gizmos and not hurt/break the computer?

Sam

[doug odom]

You didn't say what year it is but I use a TH400 in both my trucks and have installed several in customers trucks. The TH400 is by far a better trans for towing. I don't use a lock-up converter so the wiring is not a problem and the computer never thinks the trans is in OD. Any good trans guy around you ( older ) should be able to answer any questions you might still have.
 Doug Odom in big ditch

[Sumner]

I got a new hauler for the bike, but the tranny needs rebuilt. I have a TH400 on hand, but don't know about the electric gizmos that make the 4L60 work with the engine. Can I swap trannies and jumper out the gizmos and not hurt/break the computer?

Sam

With the price of gas I would get the 4L60 rebuilt with "good parts" .  They can build these now for 500-700 hp pretty easy.  Like Doug said, what year is the 4L60???

c ya,

Sum

[Dakin Engineering]

It's in a 1990 Astro van. Somebody already swapped out the 700R and since they didn't make the 4L60 until 1993.....
I do know it's the early model of the 4L60. (the internet is a wonderful thing)

Sam

[Sumner]

It's in a 1990 Astro van. Somebody already swapped out the 700R and since they didn't make the 4L60 until 1993.....
I do know it's the early model of the 4L60. (the internet is a wonderful thing)

Sam

The 4L60 used a TV cable (what you should have) to control the shifts and line pressures in the transmissions.  The 4L60E and later 4L65E were from 93 on and the computer completly controlled the transmission and there was no TV cable.  The adjustment of the TV cable is critical.  Get it wrong and the transmission won't live (how to adjust it is on my site).

If it is a '90 then the computer only did the lock-up on the converter.  So is there another 700R4 in there now or something else.  Chances are if you put in a 350 or 400 you will have to lengthen the drive shaft. 

Me, I can't imagine not running an overdrive transmission with gas prices where they are and where they are going.  Also don't forget the 700 has a lot deeper 1st (3.06) vs. any 350/400 transmission.  Get someone who knows what they are doing and have them rebuild it.  I just had the guy who built the one in my truck (135,000 miles on it now) build be a new one to go behind a 383 I built.  It was about $800 and that included a transmission that he had.

With heavy loads shift to 3rd on the hills and passing and the rest of the time on the flat and interstate run 4th and save about 30% on the gas vs. a 350/400.  If your vehicle came with a 700 I'll bet it has a 3.50 or 3.73 rear and put in a 350/400 and you will be running 3000+ over 65 mph I'll bet.

I have lots of 700R4 stuff on my site here:

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/techinfo.html

If I can help with anything PM me,

Sum

[RICK]

I like the manual shift T-56 6speed or the new Allison 6 speed. But when that thing breaks down (and they all do) in RESUME SPEED IOWA, your screwed. Nobody wants to talk to you about it, let alone help you find parts for it.    Best thing to do is go back with a 700r4/4L60.  The weakest link is the 3-4 clutch. I always install a 'SONNAX' valve in the case to help make that thing live longer. Part number is 77701-076. Second is 'reverse reaction sun shell'. They make a replacement one,,,called ROBUST. Its a tad thicker and hardened. Be sure to have the trans. cooler flushed,and checked for flow. If your towing, an additional cooler in front of the radiator is a good idea. Other than that, new seals and clutches, and happy driving.

        Good luck, RICK

ps  My wife strung up about 8 old reaction shells into a wind chime, on a windy night, its a bit too much.

[Dakin Engineering]

Thanks to all!
Rebuild it is.


Sam

[Sumner]

I like the manual shift T-56 6speed or the new Allison 6 speed. But when that thing breaks down (and they all do) in RESUME SPEED IOWA, your screwed. Nobody wants to talk to you about it, let alone help you find parts for it.    Best thing to do is go back with a 700r4/4L60.  The weakest link is the 3-4 clutch. I always install a 'SONNAX' valve in the case to help make that thing live longer. Part number is 77701-076. Second is 'reverse reaction sun shell'. They make a replacement one,,,called ROBUST. Its a tad thicker and hardened. Be sure to have the trans. cooler flushed,and checked for flow. If your towing, an additional cooler in front of the radiator is a good idea. Other than that, new seals and clutches, and happy driving.

        Good luck, RICK

ps  My wife strung up about 8 old reaction shells into a wind chime, on a windy night, its a bit too much.

Good suggestions Rick.  Besides the cooler in front of the radiator I also run a second remote screw on filter.  Besides being easy to change I can flush the transmission myself very easy. 

I drain the pan (put a drain plug in it while it is being rebuilt and I would also add a transmission temp gauge (good insurance for $45)) and then fill it back up without running the motor.  Then pull the line coming from the external cooler that hooks to the return line to the transmission and put it into a pan.  Have someone start the motor and watch that line.  The pump in the transmission will pump the fluid and it will burp kind of and you can tell when you are starting to get to the fluid you added.  Stop the motor and put the line back on.  Now start it up and keep adding fluid until you are full.  This will pretty much give you new fluid in the whole system and not just the pan.

My lines run from the transmission to the internal cooler in the radiator...to the remote filter.........to the external cooler in front of the rad........back to the transmission. 

I run at 135 deg. with the truck alone and 150 deg. with the trailer behind it. I have over 135,000 on the transmission and over 40,000 of that is pulling the teardrop which isn't light.  I'm about 5800 lbs. going down the road and have pulled trailers as heavy as 6000-7000 lbs with it for over 1000 miles.

Get someone who knows what they are doing to rebuild it (send it to Rick or the guy I use is in SE Colo and I know a very competent guy in the Phoenix area), put in a good cooler and a filter on it and it will last a long time.

One last thing is you might want to get a converter with a couple hundred more rpm stall than stock (2000-2100).  It won't hurt your mileage as it will be locked up in 4th.

c ya,

Sum

[power58]

Good stuff on the 4L60E. I was looking at the shift improver B&M sells to kick up the line pressure on the 4L60E it is a simple to add, just two wires to tap onto. Anyone run one of these ?  There is a guy on the net that shows how to make a 4L60E valve body work without a computer and more like a turbo 400. Also researching the solenoids in the 4L60E
they are not Pulse width modulated  so a rotary switch with the proper sequence  can give you a manual shifting trans. If you leave the line pressure solenoid disconnected it goes to max pressure. Kent moore makes a transaxle test box that has the same shift pattern as a 4L60E
that is a future manual shift project.     

[russ jensen]

Me, I can't imagine not running an overdrive transmission with gas prices where they are and where they are going.  (135,000 miles on it now)


Sum
[/quote] If ya all are worried bout gas millage why run a auto - allergic to shifting a stick?? one in my dodge has aprox 350,000 miles on it & have only put brngs in it once.

[Sumner]

Sum
If ya all are worried bout gas millage why run a auto - allergic to shifting a stick?? one in my dodge has aprox 350,000 miles on it & have only put brngs in it once.

Russ the converter is locked in 4th, so it is like a manual in that gear.  Me I would love to have a 6 speed double overdrive in the truck, but one, it doesn't fit in my budget and two, if you sat in my cab and saw the room available you would also see that it would be hard to fit the the gas, brake, clutch pedals and also hard to get it all working.

My truck is only the second vehicle I have owned since I started driving in '60 that was an auto  ,

Sum

[Sumner]

Good stuff on the 4L60E. I was looking at the shift improver B&M sells to kick up the line pressure on the 4L60E it is a simple to add, just two wires to tap onto. Anyone run one of these ?   

Sorry, but no and I don't know of anyone that has.

..............There is a guy on the net that shows how to make a 4L60E valve body work without a computer and more like a turbo 400. Also researching the solenoids in the 4L60E they are not Pulse width modulated  so a rotary switch with the proper sequence  can give you a manual shifting trans. If you leave the line pressure solenoid disconnected it goes to max pressure. Kent moore makes a transaxle test box that has the same shift pattern as a 4L60E
that is a future manual shift project.     

I would be interested in a link to that guys site if you still have it and anything else you have on this.  I'm getting an 4L80E for free and one of the hang-ups is going to be the $1200 computer to run it.  I wonder if any of what you said would also apply to that transmission???

c ya and thanks,

Sum

[racergeo]

You guys must be talking about pulling small trailers. The trans guys I know recommend against towing in O.D. with a 700r and a 4l60e. I think your dealer would say the same. The 4l80e is standard in hd 3/4 tons and one tons and is equipped  with it and is rated to tow in od. New Car Craft has story about 4l60e upgrade with all the latest mods.

[Sumner]

........................ The trans guys I know recommend against towing in O.D. with a 700r and a 4l60e. I think your dealer would say the same. .....................

Yes they will tell you that to protect themselves as most people that drive now have no idea when they should shift into 3rd or 4th.  Think about it for a minute.  Lets say you are pulling 5000 lbs worth of trailer down the flat interstate.  How much HP does that take??  75 hp maybe.  The transmission will easily transmit 75 HP in 4th.  Now when you pull out to pass or pull that hill it is going to take more.  Just shift into 3rd during these times. 

Most people just want to put an automatic into gear and go, probably the reason they bought one.  For those people you say put it in 3rd while towing and leave it there.

     

I have pulled trailers with over 5000 lbs in them with my truck over 1000 miles and I'm not real light even with my teardrop with a combined truck/trailer weight of 6000 lbs. and I pulled over 40,000 miles that way and the 700R4 in my truck has 140,000 miles on it since it has gone into my truck and probably 90% of that on the highway has been in 4th, just not the hills or while passing.  I did have the transmission built with a B&M total rebuild kit, but would probably not use them the next time even though I've had no problems as there are even better kits out there.

just my 2 cents,

Sum

[power58]

http://www.mez.co.uk/4l80e.html this is one site still looking for the 4L60E step by spet site that I book marked some where.