Author Topic: P-P mods?  (Read 10058 times)

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Offline V8Pinto

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P-P mods?
« on: May 14, 2007, 01:34:36 PM »
Talking with a few folks at El Mirage, I was told that a TRE was legal for P-P class motorcycle as was bumping up the engine to 1347 in the 1350 class.  What gives???

What types of mods are allowed to a "production" bike that allow it to remain legal in this class?

Is it the same at Bonneville?  Or am is it more up to the inspector?
Shane
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Hayabusa on the brain
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Offline JackD

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 03:04:17 PM »
Production should be "Out of sight, out of mind within the size limits, and the same for everybody". :wink:
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 03:29:53 PM »
First of all, forgive me for not knowing everything, but please let us know -- what's a TRE?

Okay, on to Production class modifications.  If you've got your (SCTA '07) rulebook, read page 104-5 to see what things may be modified.  Also read the two opening paragraphs, which state what must remain unchanged -- then see the last line -- "any performance modifications must be out of view."  Note:  "The exhaust system, looking at the end (down its centerline) shall be unmodified, i.e. the exit diameter of the canister (muffler) cannot be enlarged."  So -- if you think you can improve your bike by gutting the muffler, go ahead, but put it back together after taking out the inside stuff so that there's no way we can see the difference -- even to any restrictors that might be in the outlet.  There's other stuff -- but the production class is for bikes that aren't too far from what Joe Six-Pack can buy at the dealership.

Now skip ahead to pages 115-116.  "Production engines must be the same model as the model of the frame being used and must have stock external appearance."  Inspectors, like many folks, don't have X-ray eyes to see if the bore has been changed form production, nor can we tell if the crank is a non-production length.  There's your permission to change displacement.  But read on:  "OEM displacement determines the displacement class for competition.  Displacement may not be increased beyond that class limit."  So -- if your scooter was a 1098 Ducati when you bought it from the dealer -- you aren't allowed to bore & stroke it to beyond 1350 cc.  And so on. . .

But read on some more:  "Carburetors or throttle bodies must be OEM for that model production engine."  How you gonna feed all those new-found cc's with stock carb/fuel injection?

And so on.  There's room for some experimentation and variation in production class -- but not too much, or you'll be in modified.

Bonneville, El Mirage, even Maxton -- although I don't have an ECTA right at hand to quote.  Anyway, they're ll about the same.
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline V8Pinto

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 03:57:24 PM »
TRE = Timing Retard Eliminator.  It's the doo-dad that you plug into most 2000+ motorcycles to bypass the 186mph speed limiter.  It plugs into the stock harness and looks stock and you can't see it from outside the bike so (I'm told) is legal for P-P class.
Shane
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Offline SGVridgerunner

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 06:24:28 PM »
Sorry about resurrecting this, but I'm a noob.

What about ride height (ground clearance rule)? Where is that measured from?

And tires? From what I read in the rule book, wheels must be OE, but any properly speed rated tire can be used as long as it fits on the rim, correct?

I'm also assuming sprocket ratios and chain sizes can be changed correct?

I'm also VERY confused as to what "out of sight" means. As it sits, fully faired; or disassembled. Realistically, wouldn't a full tear-down make nothing "Out of sight." What if you bump up displacement and compression on a "Production" motor, then get protested. Would you lose? I've seen this happen far to often in SCCA racing, but their rules don't have as much grey area.
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Offline V8Pinto

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 07:41:03 PM »
Not sure where to measure the ground clearance but you must meet production clearance.  Tires have to be rated to the record of the class you're running in (in P-P1350 that's 203.392).

Regarding out of sight...  I have never had the awesome pleasure to backup a record so I don't know what the inspection entails.  Maybe others will pipe in.
Shane
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Hayabusa on the brain
Twin-Turbo F150 4x4

Online Stainless1

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2008, 11:36:35 PM »
Read the class rules again, then read the class rules again.  The bike must retain stock appearance, that means from the outside it must look stock.  The airbox, intake must be stock and exhaust must also look stock.  There are no "production" bikes in LSR, just bikes that appear as production.  To be competitive, they will be highly modified.  Yes you can run different sprocket ratios, good luck on ground clearance, I would suggest that it means the lowest part of the bike, but inspectors may vary.  Ask questions at your initial inspection, it may be a safety inspection, but the inspectors are usually friendly guys and will tell you what is expected, just ask.
If you can find a manufacturer that wants the fastest in class record, they will even change the parts book descriptions to protect the modifications you ran...  :evil:
Stainless
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Offline Larry Forstall

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2008, 10:55:46 AM »
Stock height in Production simply means you cannot lower the bike. No adjustable shock links, no sliding the forks up the triple tree (which is not possible stock anyway). Any internal engine mod is legal as long as the displacement does not exceed 1350cc. The screens in the intake must be in place. You can remove the resonators from the intermediate pipes (hard to do) and the baffles from the mufflers but just drilling some holes in the baffles works as well as anything. It is a tribute to Rick Y's skill that both his SCTA records remain eight years later. If $$ is no problem, lol, buy an 08, remove the cylinder base gasket, port the head, install big cams and voila a new record. Well, you have to gear it properly, ride the wheels off it, have good weather but other than that; oh then there are all the little friction reducing tricks, I'll save that for anothe post.  :-D  LF

Offline P Womack

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2008, 10:40:02 PM »
Would anyone know if it is allowed  in  the production class to mount a aftermarket (scotts performance)  steering stabilizer on a suzuki hayabusa. The stock steering dampner is mounted down low and pretty much out of sight, the aftermarket is mounted up on top of steering crown. Has anyone done this? Thanks.

Online Stainless1

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 10:46:58 PM »
We ran a Scotts on our PP in 2004, the dampner is safety equipment, just like the chain guard. 
Better submit the question to the SCTA MC guys to get the approved answer.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline P Womack

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 11:05:28 PM »
Thanks Stainless,  I was thinking the same ,but I will verify with the  SCTA m/c insp.

Offline John Noonan

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 11:58:05 PM »
Would anyone know if it is allowed  in  the production class to mount a aftermarket (scotts performance)  steering stabilizer on a suzuki hayabusa. The stock steering dampner is mounted down low and pretty much out of sight, the aftermarket is mounted up on top of steering crown. Has anyone done this? Thanks.

Pat Womack?


You can run the aftermarket dampener on the busa in the OEM location in Production classes, just an fyi the stock one works great especially when you have changed the weight of the fluid in it to 90 weight.

Good luck and have fun.

J

Offline V8Pinto

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 01:00:44 PM »
Pat if you want, I can swap that oil to 90wt for you.  Just send me a damper and I can bring it to the lakebed or ship it back to you.
Shane
V8 Pinto on juice
Hayabusa on the brain
Twin-Turbo F150 4x4

Offline P Womack

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2008, 09:51:48 PM »
Thanx John and Shane, "see you on the silt."

Offline John Noonan

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Re: P-P mods?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2008, 11:12:43 PM »
Thanx John and Shane, "see you on the silt."

El Mirage??