Author Topic: My LS bike build  (Read 86091 times)

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Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #210 on: October 18, 2007, 10:07:22 PM »
I got the air/fuel analyzer working on the dyno and made a few passes this evening. I am still on the rich side but getting closer. I had a nice big dip in power around 6600 rpm and it came back on strong after that so tomorrow I will mess around with that and try and figure it out, I need to read up on my Thunderjet as thinking something may be happening there. After I get the air/fuel right I will move onto the ignition and hopefully be done tomorrow afternoon so I can get ready to go to the race on Sunday.

As we stand now it as at 114 horse at 7300 rpm and if I recall correctly around 90 ft tq give or take and about 12-1 a/f.

If all goes well tomorrow hopefully it will be in the 120's.

Scott

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2007, 12:20:17 AM »
13.5 is where ya wanna be..... the flat spot may be the ignition pulling back, raise that advance retard curve up closer to your red line so she can over rev a bit cuz ya will need to... oh by the way the only motor that should check out at 7300 is your chase vehicle.... real race motors dont check out under 10g......punk...
kr

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2007, 01:02:45 AM »
13.5 is where ya wanna be..... the flat spot may be the ignition pulling back, raise that advance retard curve up closer to your red line so she can over rev a bit cuz ya will need to... oh by the way the only motor that should check out at 7300 is your chase vehicle.... real race motors dont check out under 10g......punk...
kr

Well we all know you can always count on Kent to lie down his true feelings.............thanks Kent...........me and my "street motor" are going to leave now. :-D

Scott

Offline Stainless1

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2007, 10:15:15 AM »
I''d shoot for 13.2, but it won't matter what the dyno says, as soon as the wind starts, the actual mix will vary.  Maybe your stack should face forward....
Best place to sort it out is the little brown or the big white dyno, unless you put a blower on it...

Kent, race motors spin 10+
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #214 on: October 19, 2007, 10:58:43 AM »
I''d shoot for 13.2, but it won't matter what the dyno says, as soon as the wind starts, the actual mix will vary.  Maybe your stack should face forward....
Best place to sort it out is the little brown or the big white dyno, unless you put a blower on it...

Kent, race motors spin 10+

The stack will be replaced very soon...........and the way things have been going I might not get a chance this year to sort it on either one of those dynos.

Scott

Offline panic

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #215 on: October 19, 2007, 01:19:37 PM »
Re: stack orientation
If you're going to use an open stack (I wouldn't) a stack with its axis 90° to the wheelbase will have a slight siphoning effect as speed increases that will change the mixture slightly. I have a feeling that it's not linear though, but has minimal effect below X mph, and a sharp increase - but what "X" is IKBA.
A forward stack (although obviously a dust, small bird etc. vacuum) will only experience a slight pressure increase as speed goes up, but as long as the air correct is inside the stack it's harmless.
My choice is the surround a 90° stack with a large volume air box ending in a sized forward entry. Near side of the box is flat, and sandwiched between the carburetor body and the stack flanges.
Remember that any jetting you develop will need serious tweaks for elevation.
Looks like you have more than 1 Thunderjet in there? Not to confuse you but if there are more than one they need not be mounted at the same distance from the throttle shaft, not at the same depth from the wall, and not the same jets sizes, etc. In general, the farther from the wall the earlier it adds mixture in the RPM range.
If after lengthy testing you have a flat spot that you can't get rid of, I would consider making the primary length adjustable since you've nicely made them parallel (you can buy swedged short pieces, just cut-n-insert). Remember your tuned length will be different at the salt due to air density, air temp, etc. anyway.
If you get to this point, the final position of the collector can be moved a bit. It won't affect the tuning, but angling the collector up so that the exhaust aligns with the trailing edge of your aero shape (probably your gluteus maximus), and inward to the tire centerline reduces your drag somewhat. If you do the math first, you can rotate the collector on the stub and angle it up and in with 1 cut (although I would prefer a 3" radius bend here).

As was stated, I don't think your frame is stiff enough (no comments!) - I don't mean it will break, I mean it may not be as stable as possible given the geometry. Much of the general design doesn't lend itself to easy changes, but 2 pieces easily made with your notcher will improve an obvious weak link: the drive side. Here's the idea:


The angles need adjustment. The vertical evenly divides the span lengths of the 2 rails, and the horizontal goes from mid-height back to the axle plate. Same OD/ID as frame.

As used on H-D factory race bikes as far back as 1928.

Offline JackD

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #216 on: October 19, 2007, 01:48:41 PM »
Did I hear a tear drop ?
Nope, it is still safe in the shelf.
If you want to learn about chassis flex, do a burn out and drive out of it to the point it gets a bite and if the back end tries to turn the corner without you, there you are.
A well known rider, fell off 2 dirt meets in a row with back steer and that was the end of that. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

John@JE Pistons

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #217 on: October 19, 2007, 02:09:41 PM »
Did I hear a tear drop ?
Nope, it is still safe in the shelf.
If you want to learn about chassis flex, do a burn out and drive out of it to the point it gets a bite and if the back end tries to turn the corner without you, there you are.
A well known rider, fell off 2 dirt meets in a row with back steer and that was the end of that. :wink:



Poor old Ron..

J

Offline JackD

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #218 on: October 19, 2007, 10:57:31 PM »
And you guys all said John N. would never learn.  LOL
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #219 on: October 20, 2007, 12:55:32 AM »
I got as far as I could this afternoon on the dyno. My final number were 122.7 hp and 95.5 ft tq. I got rid of the dip in power at 6600 rpm by tightening up a loose connection on one of the coils. That was not the only thing that loosened up and had to be tightened......dam Harley's! I got the a/f as close as I could, it is about 13.5 at 4000 rpm and slowly tapers to about 12.5 +/- as it gets to redline at 7500 rpm. I could not get the a/f as good below 4000 rpm because the bigger intermediate jets I ordered are back ordered. I drilled one intermediate out to .041 which helped, but did not completely fix the condition. Good thing is once I am out of first gear the motor should not see to much of 4000 rpm and below. I played with the timing a little bit and got a few extra horsepower out of the motor, however I may have got more if I would of made a few more passes.

I feel there is little bit more hp and tq in the motor if I did some more fine tunning, but it is good for now. I definately feel a good experienced dyno tuner could exceed what I have done as I am just a rookie tuner.
For now I am very happy with the numbers and all that is left to do is race the dam thing!

Scott

Horsepower only


Horsepower and torque........not sure what happened to the dyno/printer with the torque line??



Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #220 on: October 20, 2007, 01:18:46 AM »
Re: stack orientation
If you're going to use an open stack (I wouldn't) a stack with its axis 90° to the wheelbase will have a slight siphoning effect as speed increases that will change the mixture slightly. I have a feeling that it's not linear though, but has minimal effect below X mph, and a sharp increase - but what "X" is IKBA.
A forward stack (although obviously a dust, small bird etc. vacuum) will only experience a slight pressure increase as speed goes up, but as long as the air correct is inside the stack it's harmless.
My choice is the surround a 90° stack with a large volume air box ending in a sized forward entry. Near side of the box is flat, and sandwiched between the carburetor body and the stack flanges.
Remember that any jetting you develop will need serious tweaks for elevation.
Looks like you have more than 1 Thunderjet in there? Not to confuse you but if there are more than one they need not be mounted at the same distance from the throttle shaft, not at the same depth from the wall, and not the same jets sizes, etc. In general, the farther from the wall the earlier it adds mixture in the RPM range.
If after lengthy testing you have a flat spot that you can't get rid of, I would consider making the primary length adjustable since you've nicely made them parallel (you can buy swedged short pieces, just cut-n-insert). Remember your tuned length will be different at the salt due to air density, air temp, etc. anyway.
If you get to this point, the final position of the collector can be moved a bit. It won't affect the tuning, but angling the collector up so that the exhaust aligns with the trailing edge of your aero shape (probably your gluteus maximus), and inward to the tire centerline reduces your drag somewhat. If you do the math first, you can rotate the collector on the stub and angle it up and in with 1 cut (although I would prefer a 3" radius bend here).

As was stated, I don't think your frame is stiff enough (no comments!) - I don't mean it will break, I mean it may not be as stable as possible given the geometry. Much of the general design doesn't lend itself to easy changes, but 2 pieces easily made with your notcher will improve an obvious weak link: the drive side. Here's the idea:


The angles need adjustment. The vertical evenly divides the span lengths of the 2 rails, and the horizontal goes from mid-height back to the axle plate. Same OD/ID as frame.

As used on H-D factory race bikes as far back as 1928.

Only one t-jet and the stack will likely be replaced by the November race. Also I am gonna build a completely different frame for next season so I will not be making the frame stiffer. I do appreciate your input and welcome your comments.

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #221 on: October 20, 2007, 01:19:46 AM »
Did I hear a tear drop ?
Nope, it is still safe in the shelf.
If you want to learn about chassis flex, do a burn out and drive out of it to the point it gets a bite and if the back end tries to turn the corner without you, there you are.
A well known rider, fell off 2 dirt meets in a row with back steer and that was the end of that. :wink:


Is it still $1 Jack??

Offline JackD

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #222 on: October 20, 2007, 01:42:51 AM »
It's gotta be all cash.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #223 on: October 20, 2007, 02:05:35 AM »
It's gotta be all cash.

Cash it is.......bring it to ELMO if you are going or the next club meeting.

Scott

Offline isiahstites

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Re: My LS bike build
« Reply #224 on: November 12, 2007, 01:33:03 AM »
My first run was good and exactly what they wanted out of a rookie inbetween 125 and 150mph. The bike pulled extremely hard through first, second and third gears! I was really suprised at just how hard the bike pulled. In 4th and 5th around 7000 rpm the bike started breaking up and at this point I believe the thunderjet may have added to much fuel at the higher rpms as it is vaccum operated. So my one and only pass for the season was 128 mph with a really rich tune in the bike. I made the neccesay jetting changes in hope for a second pass. I felt if the bike ran as good as it did in first, second and third and could do the same in fourth and fifth that It would make a 150 pass with no problems.


After a few of the Roadsters blew tires and had some spinouts on the course they deemed it unsafe and stopped all second round runs for Saturday in an effort to move the course over. So I would have to wait until Sunday morning to see what she really has.

Well we got up early this morning and got to the track at around 7:00 A.M. so I could get a good spot as the air is better in the morning. I was 4th in line and attended the drivers meeting at 8:00 A.M. where all the driver were told they may cancel the event due to the ambulance not being able to be on site and that they did not want to take any chances with anyones saftey. They relayed to us if they could not contact an ambulance by 10:00 A.M. that they were going to call the meet.

Well around 9:45 A.M. an ambulance was on site and everyone was excited to get the race going until the wind decided to pick up...........they cancelled the meet at a 11:00 A.M. and we packed it up and headed home.

On a side note the bike was very steady at speed and I did not even notice it was rigid. The bike accelerated hard and the brake worked good. I couldn't of been happier with the overall performance of the bike top to bottom. With some tuning we will be back stronger that ever next year. After my run Cami said to me she was really proud of me for going that speed. I said thanks and didn't think it was such a big deal until she reminded me I had built that bike from top to bottom. That I had turned every nut and bolt and made everything work together.........it was at this point I smiled and thought wow I built this bike and it worked! That was a great feeling..........


Scott

Waiting in tech



Getting ready to run



Man, machine and 1.3 miles WFO!




I'm off!




Visibilty after the cancelled meet









Here is how dirty the bike was after one pass





An end to the season.